Help Identifying: William I Silver Penny

Good evening, fellow numismatists,

I am new to CoinTalk and am looking to get some help identifying a silver penny from William the Conqueror that I picked up for $10. The obverse appears to read PILLELM REX, and the coin appears to be of the "PAXS" variety. However, I cannot make out the reverse. This is the first English penny that I have added to my collection, so any help identifying the reverse legend, moneyer, and mint would be helpful. Thanks and sorry about the poor photo quality!

 

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Welcome to CT. My limited amount of knowledge leads me to believe it is a reproduction, but wait for someone knowledgeable.

 

Not my area of collection interests, but I wish you well.

 

Thank you for the response. I am afraid too that it may be fake. I will keep my eyes out for the verdict.

In the meantime, what makes you believe it is a fake?

 

Although I hate to do it, all I can fall back on is that it just "doesn't look right". And I admitted that I am not knowledgeable. If someone knowledgeable shows up (they will, just have patience) they will want to know diameter in mm and weight in g. If real this is probably a $1000+ coin.

PS...is it magnetic?

 

Not very knowledgable on pennies, but I've combined the two photo's into one.

 

Thank you for doing that, Roerbakmix! Makes it much easier to see both sides!

 

It is not magnetic, so at least that is not bad news.

 

At $10 it surely must be a fake, but it actually looks to me like it might be OK. Can we get a photo out of the plastic, and with better focus on the obverse? (What do you think @TheRed? @Aethelred? @seth77?)

 

I should have prefaced the price by saying that I bought it at an estate sale that was selling loads of other coins, including at least one gold piece that went for $1100. I am thinking that the group doing the pricing may have overlooked this piece.

As for the photos, I can try to attach better photos in a bit.

 

Weight?

 

This photograph is still not great, but I do not think that I can get any more focused.

Also, I do not have a scale that I can use to measure the weight. I might try to pick one up soon.

 

Still looks OK to me (though note you won't harm the coin from removing it from the cardboard & plastic, and you would get a better photo.)

The moneyer appears to be Brihtword from Bristol, like this coin. Obverse legend +PILLELM REX, reverse legend +BIHTPORD ON BRIC(?).

 

I think you've struck lucky with that one ! Fingers crossed that that's the case. I would remove it from its plastic tomb though ! Wonder what other beauties went under the hammer and sold for a song..the mind boggles.

 

New double photo for convenience:

 

I think you have nailed the legends on either side. After looking for awhile, I noticed the "T" between the 3 and 4 o'clock position, however, I could not find a moneyer with the fourth letter of his name being a "T". Thank you!

Sounds like the final question is whether it is authentic. Clanger, I hope you are right. I now wonder which other pieces at that estate sale were labeled at a low price, yet were simply hidden gems! I will be posting another coin, an ancient Judaean Lepton, soon for more help deciphering authenticity.

 

If the coin is authentic (my negative opinion is worthless for several reasons including the fact I don't collect these and you can never trust a photo) it is worth enough (four digits?) that it would sell easily if accompanied by certification paperwork or if placed in an NGC slab. Your decision is whether you risk $50 to find out or try to sell the coin to a real British coin specialist dealer (not a local coin shop that buys gold).

 

I am doubtful as to the authenticity of this coin. First and foremost, the surfaces of the obverse and reverse seem off. While it could be the quality of the photos, the fabric appears very strange, not hammered. Also, there are some very strange divits in the coin, most notable in the circles of A and S on the reverse and the neck and scepter of the obverse that scream casting bubbles to my eye. Lastly, the reverse cross and parts of both legends don't look crisp as you would expect from a die struck on a planchet.

Based off of the photos, and without weight and thickness, I'm fairly confident that this is a forgery. The fact that it only sold for only $10 makes me even more suspicious. PAXS pennies of William are some of the most recognizable and desirable Norman coins. Even a poor example runs hundreds of dollars. To only sell for $10 means that either the people conducting the estate sale were incompetent or they knew exactly what the coin is (a likely forgery).

 

Bummer. @TheRed would know much better than me. The question is whether the details he notes could be due to wear and damage to a genuine coin; I'm sure he'd acknowledge that this is a possibility, even if it's more remote than I figured. I would recommend having an expert examine the coin in hand, but in the meantime, sadly, the betting is that it's a forgery.

 

Hi, I know nothing about English coinage, but at 10$ even if fake it's not really a hole in the budget.