When to clean coins????

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Chip Kirkpatrick, May 24, 2019.

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  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I thought I did define it when I said - 92% alcohol. But you are correct, 91% is the correct number, not 92. Memory error on my part.
     
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  3. TexAg

    TexAg Well-Known Member

    I read Roscoe’s story out loud just now to my wife while shopping at Walmart. Great story! Too bad somebody had to rain on your (and Roscoe’s) parade. :(
    Yes, cardinals are very cool. You did good getting that bird to adulthood!
     
  4. TexAg

    TexAg Well-Known Member

    My two cents on dipping clad Kennedys. I’ll dip them if they need it and are around AU55 or better and not too nicked up. My experience with coins that are worse than that is dipping them emphasizes the nicks and scratches even more.
     
  5. Ag76

    Ag76 Coins 'n' history

    It is indeed right. Native migratory birds are federally protected species. It is even a federal crime to pick up their empty nests from the ground. Or their feathers.

    I understand and support the intent behind the law, but there doesn't seem to be an out for "reasonable exceptions."
     
  6. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Actually you can apply for a permit. All wildlife rehab centers have to have appropriate state and federal permits esp for the birds protected under the MBTA. In fact the OP should have contacted such a place and taken Roscoe there. Once the bird recovers or in this case fledges, then it is released. When in doubt call your state Wildlife Agency and they will direct you on the proper course of action.
     
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  7. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member


    This is actually a FEDERAL law. Basically it is illegal to possess a bird, parts of a bird, egg OR EVEN A SINGLE FEATHER of nearly every native bird in the US. I knew about the law. That’s why I repeatedly released him but I thought his actions would give me a little leeway. Nope.

    The law is THE FEDERAL MIGRATORY BIRD ACT. Cardinals aren’t migratory except in a small area of the country. (Not Florida) BCE9D8E2-7196-4B74-B225-732C7EBC6EA9.jpeg

    A woman who runs a bird rehabilitation center told me a friend of hers had a Native American dream catcher that had a single hawk feather on it. She was fined $1000 for that feather.

    Like I stated the head man at the Florida Wildlife Commission called me and apologized. He admitted the law is flawed and poorly written.
     

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    Ag76, -jeffB and Randy Abercrombie like this.
  8. Chip Kirkpatrick

    Chip Kirkpatrick Well-Known Member


    You can apply but will never be approved. It requires thousands of hours of study and work. Believe me I checked.
     
  9. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    True the Migratory Bird Treaty Act is a federal law but you also need the appropriate state permit as well. That is why you contact your local wildlife agency and or rehabilitation center if you come across injured or young wildlife as they have the appropriate training and permits to conduct such work. Your efforts while commendable, are unfortunately misguided and the appropriate authorities should have been contacted on day 1, not after someone reported you because of your FB posts.
     
  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    There's COUNTLESS federal laws that are not enforced at all. If you really wanted to make a big issue over it and have the energy you could, especially when the bird was choosing to come back to you and they were the ones that took a protected bird and ignored it's free will.
     
    Randy Abercrombie likes this.
  11. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    91% IPA (Ispropyl alcohol), not Methanol (Wood alcohol) or Ethanol (Grain alcohol).
     
  12. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    Make sure you use a bottle of dip just for clad coins. If you use some that has previously had silver coins dipped in it, you will silver-plate the clad coins. Nickel is the best base metal for plating.
     
    TexAg likes this.
  13. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    While true this is why the OP will not be prosecuted. If he presses this of course he will lose but really what would that accomplish. The workings of the MBTA are nuanced and suffice it to say we cant really get into it without being a bit political. I have 26 years of working with the MBTA and it basically comes down to intent of the activity whether you are in violation or not and how the law is chosen to be enforced under this and past administrations. Not saying one is better than another, just different interpretations of the same law.
     
  14. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    TV cameras can be very powerful, and bad laws generally need attention from a documented story to change. If nothing else they may not be so quick to act in the future in clearly different circumstances the law was not designed for. The intent is supposed to be to protect the animal, not make decisions for it

    I fully get it would likely be a symbolic stance, that said if someone took my pet aka a part of my family this would be the time I would engage in that.
     
  15. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    In my first post on the subject I mentioned that wildlife is owned by the state. As such, the OP never owned Roscoe. He found him and raised him but never legally possessed him as you can a pet such as a cat, dog, fish, horses etc. The reasons for this are rooted in the origins of MBTA passed in 1918.
     
  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    His ownership is irrelevant though. The bird was free to leave and even released several times but came back. With some effort you could at the very least embarrass the department for overriding the free will of the protected species where Roscoe's decision was harming no one and was a danger to nothing. This is especially true since he already had a social media following and would very likely go viral that could either lead to change, or at the very least jam up the career of the person who made the absurd decision.
     
  17. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Once the OP took him in he fed him and he grew up to be big and strong. But unfortunately Roscoe had not learned what it was to be a free Cardinal. In effect, he HAD no choice because he did not know how to feed himself or relate to other Cardinals. He was totally dependent and had to come back when the hunger pangs hit him. You see, just like a child he learns from his parents how to survive in the wild. Roscoe had no other decision but to come back.
     
  18. TexAg

    TexAg Well-Known Member

    Roscoe would not have survived if Chris had not rescued him. A three day old bird that has fallen out of his nest cannot be saved by his parents. He needs the protection of the nest and food and warmth from them until he is strong enough to fly the nest and survive on his own. Even then it's a crap shoot with predators that might make dinner out of him before he's is strong and quick enough to evade them.
     
    baseball21 likes this.
  19. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    No one knows if Roscoe's parents could have taken care of him and because he was kidnapped they never had the chance. Many birds fall out of the nest early and many die. Many are still fed by their parents and survive. The appropriate action is always to call the game and fish department and/or a local wildlife rehab center where the folks have the training and experience in such matters.
     
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Ironically your attempt to defend the terrible decision just completely proved the point. If we take it at face value Roscoe had no choice because he could not survive on his own as he was brought up as you argued, then the office sent a protected bird to his death taking him away. This is a losing battle for the decision if he chooses to press it publicly.
     
  21. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    No it proves my point that let the experts deal with it as is the law. The incorrect decision was to take the law into his own hands and care for the animal himself. There are professionals to do this work. THAT decision led to the wildlife officials having to do their job. Tough decision yes. Proper decision, yes

    Look I know my position and that of the state and/or federal law enforcement officials is not popular but it is the correct one in this case. Let the experts do their job.
     
    SmokinJoe likes this.
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