The worst portraits

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Valentinian, May 21, 2019.

  1. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    I can think of some issues of ancient coins where the "portraits" are really bad. Byzantine copper is not known for die quality, but coins of Sear 518 of Emperor Maurice Tiberius (582-602) from Cyzicus stoop to a low. I have examples from two different years, so it is not just one die from a bad day.

    SB518GIIMaurice15170.jpg
    30 mm. 12.68 grams
    Maurice, 582-602
    Sear 518. Facing bust, plumed helmet, globus cruciger and shield (with rider left).
    Legend some approximation of DN MAVRIC TIbЄR PP A
    Large M. ANNO GII (=8 = 589/90) officina A.
    KYZ for Cyzicus mint.

    SB518Maurice15169.jpg
    Another Sear 518, this one 29-28 mm, 10.10 grams, and from year X (= 10 = 591/2)
    Same design. Different terrible portrait.

    Show us your coins with bad portraits!
     
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  3. Orielensis

    Orielensis Well-Known Member

    A while ago, I bought this one from you exactly because the portrait is so hilariously hideous and disproportionate:

    Rom – Licinius 2, AE3, jupiter.png
    Licinius II, Roman Empire, AE3, 317–320 AD, Antioch mint. Obv: DN VAL LICIN LICINIVS NOB C, laureate and draped bust left, holding mappa, globe, and sceptre. Rev: IOVI CONSERVATORI CAESS, Jupiter standing left, holding Victory on globe and sceptre, captive at feet left, delta in right field. 18mm, 2.82g. Ref: RIC VII, 29 delta. Ex Warren Esty.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  4. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    How funny, I was just working on images of some of my Indian coins. They have some pretty hilarious/terrifying portrait coins, and some that are a Rorschach test just to see the human figure.

    Just massively overpaid to win this one on ebay, one of the most abstract I've ever seen!

    Those unfamiliar with the type - can you even see the portrait? (Seller's pic - won't be here for at least a month)
    s-l400 (28).jpg

    Others:
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-f7170kacWT7.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-mdTkOKagOsC4e1U.jpg Post sri ha.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-N6p8nLbw62Ez9y3.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-BFbwQ6zjEvCdoQMx.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-a8kWjEcS35qtik.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-U5wtpvehvUM1YWm.jpg

    All of those are different impressionistic takes on this design
    Peroz drachm GWL.jpg
     
  5. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    After reading your top post, I immediately thought of my little Indo-Sassinian drachm.
    INDIA, Gadhaiya Paisa, c. 1000 AD, Sassanian style bust rt fire altar.jpg
    At least it is a more "abstract" portrait than some of the later Byzantine coins. Those portraits are awful. Makes me sad to think about how the quality of the artistry deteriorated over the years.
     
  6. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    That was not because a lack of talent , in fact Byzantine art at the same time was very beautiful. It was done because of the old Greek philosophy of spiritualism, true beauty was from within. q6.jpg It cannot be depicted visually.
    This is an excellent example of the philosophy near the end of the empire. It is kind of the birth of an abstract art.
     
  7. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Those Sear 518's are wonderfully awful! My previous worst portrait was a Nikomedia Maurice:
    Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 1.44.48 PM.jpg

    But it has now been outdone by my new Phocas pentanummium, which must surely be a challenger for the worse portrait ever (reverse [seller's] photo upside down):
    563169.jpg

    Pace @BenSi, this is definitely a case of lack of talent! :D Rather than, say, a sophisticated impressionist interpretation of Lowly Worm...
    Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 1.47.05 PM.jpg

    Those are direct portrait coins. If we're including copies of copies of copies of... like @Finn235's, my choice would be the Taman Goth (?) interpretation of a 2nd century Roman portrait. That's on the obverse in case it wasn't obvious. :D
    Screen Shot 2019-05-21 at 1.54.49 PM.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  8. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Byzantine is admittedly a numismatic area I do not know well... if the descent of their artistry into abstract madness was a calculated move, why didn't they just linger in the anonymous coinage, or those silver coins with a cross on one side and legend on the other? The aversion to iconography on Muslim coinage worked out pretty well for them.

    I do sometimes wonder about the strange portraiture used on many non-classical cultures, especially in Celtic Europe, India and Central Asia - was the descent into chaos due to artistic/philosophical preferences, or just a lack of skill?

    Celtic
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-HiTVyJy17A.jpg Celtic obol whatsit.jpg Danbue celt tet Philip III.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-uUGdnVkmhzpnVP.jpg
    Celtic gaul Aulerci Cenomani AR obol 50 BC.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-gfiz2NFwz73u4ct.jpg
     
  9. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Gee Guys, I don't have any portraits per se like these. But here's a pretty bad Heraclius with some stick figures standing on the obverse. It reminds of Navajo/Pueblo rock art in fact, with those indeterminate figures.

    heraclius1.jpg

    heraclius2.jpg
     
  10. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What is it about money that prompted emperors to accept shoddily crafted coins? Clearly it was acceptable to create beautiful art in other media.

    Maybe the careless and sloppy portraiture and generally shoddy coins were emperors trying to distance themselves from the mundane, like "I don't care about money so I don't want any lifelike portrait of me to appear on coins"? Or, perhaps they felt it was more Christ-like to eschew money, so no effort was made to create well-crafted or visually pleasing money?

    I wonder the same thing.

    I can't wrap all Byzantine coins into the same ugly package... there are some coins where it is obvious that a more skilled artist was at work. In general though it is not visually pleasing, especially the bronzes. I don't see it as an attempt at abstraction... just bad or careless art.

    An assortment of Bad Byzness:

    [​IMG]
    Justin I
    518-527 CE
    AE follis, 32 mm, 15.6 gm
    Nikomedia
    Obv: DN IVSTINVS PP AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right
    Rev: Large M, star to left, cross above, star to right, officina letter below, mintmark NIKM
    Ref: SB 83

    [​IMG]
    Justin I
    518-527 CE
    AE Pentanummium, Antioch. Diameter of each is ~13 mm.
    Obv: DN IVSTINVS PP AV; pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right
    Rev: Tyche of Antioch, turreted, seated left within columned shrine with half submerged figure of river-god Orontes swimming at her feet; retrograde epsilon to left
    Ref: SB 111, DOC 57


    Gold didn't necessarily get the VIP treatment either:
    [​IMG]
    Constantine IV
    668-685 CE
    AV tremissis, 1.4 gm, 17 mm
    Constantinople mint
    Obv: DN CONSTANTINUS PPAG; Pearl-diademed, draped, and cuirassed bust right
    Rev: VICTORIA AVGUS; cross potent; CONOB
    Ref: SB 1162
     
  11. Parthicus

    Parthicus Well-Known Member

    As @Finn235 showed above, some of the later Indian imitations of Sasanian portraiture got pretty crazy. But to be fair, some of the original Sasanian portraits were pretty weird and abstract already. For example, this coin of Hormazd IV (579-590):
    fisheye.jpg
     
  12. BenSi

    BenSi Well-Known Member

    I paraphrased the actual philosophy. Here is the info I had posted in another thread. However, like all talents I believed the engravers started their profession in copper and moved their way up the ladder to gold.

    Check out the link to the article bellow in the Celator, I found it very interesting when I first read it years ago.

    Spiritualism a Philosophy by Plotinus , beauty itself it the ultimate simplicity. "Real beauty is in the Soul and the body merely disrupts the perception of the Beauty."

    This philosophy effected all religions and all western cultures of the time.

    The Celator had an article in 1989. Here it is.

    https://community.vcoins.com/celator-vol-03-no-11/
     
  13. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Meet zombie Minerva, with a face only a mother could love, and a botched nose job that makes Michael Jackson's nose look good by comparison.

    Servilius M.F. Rullus denarius (100 BCE).jpg
     
  14. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    This is my favorite bad portrait...

    [​IMG]

    Holy Roman Empire, Archbishopric of Salzburg, Eberhard II, 1200-1246 AD

    AR Friesarcher pfennig, o:(right on pic)bishop with crosier, r (left on pic): bishop between crosses. 19 mm, 1.2g


    This coin was TIFinated!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    100_4155.JPG
    Dionysus on an Eastern Celtic tetradrachm, circa 125 BC, 33 mm, 17.05 gm. :eek:

    Thasos 168-148 BC, tetradrachm, 17.10 gm, 33.95 mm.jpg
    For comparison, Dionysus on a Thasos tetradrachm, circa 168-148 BC, 34 mm, 17.10 gm. Photo courtesy of Ancient Arts, London. :D
     
  16. ValiantKnight

    ValiantKnight Well-Known Member

    I love my Visigothic gold but if they were going to have the bust on both sides some more effort would have been nice o_O

    Sisebut, Visigothic Kingdom
    AV tremissis
    Obv: + SISEBVTVS REX, bust facing
    Rev: + TOLETO PIVS, bust facing
    Mint: Toledo
    Date: 612-621 AD
    Ref: Miles 183a

    upload_2019-5-21_21-47-40.jpeg

    Their mouths are connected to their eyes for Pete’s sake!
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  17. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    I'm working on series 1.2 of my Indo-Sassanians, when the chaos of the early series gives way to something a bit more formulaic. Many of these coins have features that betray a relatively skilled hand - someone had made the conscious decision for the portraits to be this ugly!

    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-583gPLlftd.jpg
    imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-EuLb74T2sb.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-h444LL4MVhLl.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-DvYNiJJ25RzxjO.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-17CgrgVCPcvWM.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-c5MJr3aqpr.jpg 4.10 17.jpg 4.13 16.jpg 4.04 17.jpg imgonline-com-ua-twotoone-SDOrfiHzNhTEu.jpg
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    You will droop a mite when you are that old, too.
    Mine is older and sharp but it does look like someone stole his dentures.
    Indian Tribute Penny copy
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=245275
    rb0940bb0088.jpg
     
  19. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    Severus Alexander likes this.
  20. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

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  21. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Lowly Worm! Thanks for the childhood nostalgia! I loved Richard Scarry when I was a new reader.

    These are great! I'll bet someone must surely have some fun Celtic additions.
     
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