Being a new collector I seem to learn new things every day - and when I have questions I am thankful for the patience shown by the knowledgeable collectors here. I only own one coin of the Republic as this has not been my focus at all. But I was very curious when I noticed this coin on VCoins (not my coin of course - for sale now on VCoins) at this link: https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/sh...ius_17_mm_37_g_rome_mint/1146995/Default.aspx I hope it's Ok that I include the picture if I include the link to a beautiful coin for sale (?). Please delete if I am breaking any rules. Obverse: ANCVS, head of Ancus Marcius right, lituus behind Reverse: AQVAMRC, equestrian statue right on aqueduct, flower below horse. Crawford 425/1; Sydenham 919a; RSC Marcia 29. As Ancus Marcius was apparently the 4th King of Rome.. I was surprised to see his likeness on a coin of the Republic. Everything I have read seemed to stress the extreme aversion to Kings during the Republic (for obvious reasons). Yet here we apparently see the image of a former King on a coin.. I assume this probably is a Moneyer displaying his apparent patrician bonafides, but I still find it interesting (dangerous?) that this was produced. What are the general thoughts on this? Are other Kings of Rome displayed on coins? How were they perceived? Any thoughts or examples (or corrections to above!) are appreciated.
I think by the 50's BCE the fear of kings was fading fast. Marius had marched on Rome, Sula had marched on Rome, Pompey had threatened the Senate at times to get what he wanted, and the Triumvirate had a stranglehold on Roman politics. So the ideals of Cincinnatus quitting the dictatorship early and retiring to a small farm to plow his fields quietly was by then a long distant memory. I doubt anyone much cared by this point about a former king being depicted on the coinage. Only 29 years after this coin was struck, Augustus basically had himself made king in all but name. Yeah, he had to keep the senators happy, and keep many of the old offices so patricians could pretend they were still important, but political theater aside he was pretty much a king. Had Caesar been as politically astute as his adopted son, I have no doubt the Senate would have accepted him as a quasi-monarch instead of murdering him. But Caesar did not like the idea of letting the nobles pretend they were still important, which is why he ended up murdered while his adopted son met with much more success.
The right to design and mint coins was a perk granted by the Senate to well-connected members. Moneyers often used this privilege to promote themselves and their families. It was quite common for a moneyer to claim an ancestral connection to a famous historical figure, in this case, a former king.
I don't have an answer to your question but suspect it is as you said-- the moneyer advertising his ancestry. As for posting the currently for sale coin, there are no rules against it. There aren't many rules at all about such things but many people (including myself) have encouraged the following guidelines: Do not post coins that are currently up for auction. Wait until the auction has closed. Post fixed-price coins at your own peril if it is a coin you're considering buying. Fixed price coins can be seen and purchased by anyone at any time, so you're not thwarting anyone's bidding plan by posting it here.
We will all have different opinions on how we would spend $480. Your proposed coin is beautiful and unworn. I find the centering of the reverse short of $480 so I will not be the one who buys your coin while you are thinking about it. Someone may and you have no one to blame but yourself. My specimen is worn and has a banker's mark making it unwanted by the same people who like your coin even for the $35 I paid for it. Pricing of ancient coins is a matter of opinion. If that coin strikes you as something you like better than other uses for the money, I see nothing to stop you. Yes, this one is said to have Numa Pompilius and Ancus Marcius. A well struck, unworn example might be similar in price to yours.
To be clear - I was not considering buying this particular coin (way above my budget). It was just a type I was unaware of and was interested in learning more.
How about foreign kings depicted on Roman coinage? To the Romans Philip V of Macedon was the ancient equivalent of Saddam Hussein. So what did the Romans do? Obviously they depicted him on their coinage because.....uhm, because why not? L. Philippus 113-112 B.C. AR Denarius 19mm. 3.80g. Rome Mint Head of Philip V of Macedon r., wearing royal Macedonian helmet; (phi) under chin, ROMA monogram behind. Equestrian statue r., base inscribed L.PHILIPPV, flower below horse; In ex.: X Craw 293/1; RSC I Marcia 12 Note: Lightly toned with much remaining lustre. Faint scratches
The coin IMO is overpriced. I was able to snag this one from a Savoca Auction for a little over $300, IIRC. They are frequently offered more worn in the $100-150 range. More than the depiction of Ancus Marcius on the obverse, this particular issue is special because: 1) L Marcius Philippus was Octavian's stepfather and the brother in law of Julius Caesar. 2) Octavian is said to have enjoyed distributing coins for Saturnalia, including "coins of the old kings". Could it be this particular type referenced? It would certainly make sense, given his personal connection.
@Finn235 is right. You have to be very careful with VCoins. There are many great dealers in the platform, but that doesn't mean they all are. It is well known that there's a handful of dealers on VCoins that tend to overprice their coins, and a few whose coins all have the same colored desert patina, despite being from different parts of the world. Even coins that previously had no desert patina miraculously grow one. So what we're trying to say is that although we generally recommend VCoins to newbies, because unlike eBay your chances of buying a fake are extremely low on vcoins, that doesn't mean you should let your guard down and not do your due diligence. There's a few bad apples that will sell you a genuine coin, but at inflated prices or with fake desert patina.
Here's another coin where name recognition in support of a political career and advertising of venerable family history was the emphasis as L Titurius Sabinus reminds us of his important ancestor, Sabine King Titus Tatius. L Titurius L.f. Sabinus AR Denarius. 89 BC. Obv: Bearded head of King Tatius right, SABIN behind Rev: Victory in biga right, bearing wreath, L TITVRI below, control mark VI in exergue
Maybe overpriced, it's all opinion. For you to compare the price you paid for your coin versus this one for sale does not have much bearing if they are not in the same condition.
For perspective, this is what $129 also gets you on vcoins. 1) Has more wear 2) Is not as well centered, though all aspects of the design are there. 3) Has a bankers mark That being said, I suspect the above coin is acceptable for 85% to 90% of us here. Only the select few that can afford or desire nothing but pristine coins might differ, and to them paying an extra $300+ for that might be worth it.
