1916-P Buffalo Nickel - is it???

Hey fellow coin peeps,

I recently acquired an interesting 1916-P Buffalo Nickel with what appears to be roller marks (see Roller Mark definition below) and there's also something a little "odd" about the date (hint-hint). Please take a peek-see and tell me what you see and given that roller marks do not kill a coin's grade, please grade it to the best of your abilities (pics are not the best)?

Roller Marks
Term to describe the mostly parallel incuse lines seen on some coins after striking. These were originally thought to be lines resulting from debris “scoring” the metal strips before the blanks were cut. However, new research has pointed to the final step of strip preparation, the draw bar. To reduce the strips to proper thickness, the final step was to pass them through the draw bar. It certainly seems logical that debris in the draw bar may cause these lines, if so, then draw-bar marks or lines would be a more appropriate term.

Ribbit :smile

 

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Interesting coin - I am going to take a stab at ms60, but bow to experts that will come a long. Very interesting coin and looks nice to me.

 

Did you look at the date? Hint - check the price guide for this coin's date:

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?c=83

Ribbit :smile

 

Roller marks on Buffalo's are actually common. I've seen quite a few with them, so it's not cleaning or it would have affected the high surfaces more than the lower surfaces because if you look at both high & low surfaces, it's consistant and therefore it occurred prior to minting (my opinion).

Ribbit :smile

 

I know what he is talking about..... I have seen many buffalo nickels up for sale, and I have seen the "Roller Marks", unless everyone I ever saw has been harshly and over dipped.

 

Are you thinking this is a doubled die obverse?

 

It's not as profound as others I've seen but the 6 appears to be DD. I'll have to wait till it arrives to examine the rest of the date and the 6 more closely to know for sure but I figured I post it for now until it arrives.

Ribbit :smile

 

Why? I see nothing on the date - I can only grade based off what I see in the pictures. As for the roller marks - I really do not know. So I did not see any wear, but nothing to really make me go higher. I read the other posts and recommend you go to heritage to view a 1916/16. This does not look like one to me, but you never know. Hope it turns out for the best.

 

Like I said earlier, it isn't as profound as the other ones I've seen (Heritage House and other auction places) but the inside circle of the 6 has the "look" of a DD but not anywhere near what the auction house ones do. Those are major DD's.

If you will recall the 1955 & 1972 Lincoln DD's? Those 2 also had major DD's and minor DD's (priced accordingly). I'm just saying it looks like mine might be a minor version of the 16 DD.

Ribbit :smile

 

Sorry, but if it's not the real deal it's just strike doubling.

 

What's the difference between the two and how do the two occur? If there is a difference, then I would ponder a guess that they occur differently.

Ribbit :smile

 

Although it is really hard to tell, I examined the Date and it appears that there is definitely another lower loop of a "6" (Secondary) extending from inside and to the South of the Primary "6"! Boy, if we just had some better close-up pictures!


Frank

 

I'll have a camera by the time this sucker arrives and it will be photo'd real close-up and I will post the pic along with posting a pic of my other weekend acquisition, the little $1 Gold Dollar in my grading request thread.

Ribbit :smile

 

A true doubled die is where the die itself is doubled in the process of being pressed with the hub.

Strike doubling (machine doubling) happens at the point the coin is being made. The die being loose in the press can be one cause.

The image below is a good example of strike doubling. If it were a true doubled die it would be worth quite a bit. As strike doubling it's worth about the same as a normal coin. Hope that helps some. It's a large topic.

 

Do you know of any good articles online that discuss this more extensively? I'd like to educate myself more on all aspects and this looks like a good one to know more about.

Ribbit :smile

 

The coin you used was interesting because it happens to be in price guides, yet the price for it is about double that of the same year coin without the repunched date. I would think double strikes would bring the coin's value up above that of the same coin without it and the price guide seems to agree with me but I do understand what you are saying about the difference between a true DD and a SD.

Thanks!

Ribbit :smile

 

Doubled strike, strike doubling and doubled die are three different things.
I don't know of any coins with strike doubling being in any price guide.

 

I can see it in the pics now... let's hope it's not a shadow or a trick of the light!

 

http://www.pcgs.com/prices/PriceGuideDetail.aspx?c=81

Date - 1866 - the coin used for demonstration earlier but they call it a repunched date. Or, am I wrong again?

Ribbit :smile