Here's a section that is right up Ian's street as much as it is up mine.It is about the history of Scotland's coinage.Yes,the Edinburgh pieces of 1707-08 can be regarded as Scots coins.I have got a few Scots coins that I have picked up over the past 10 years.These include a Mary,Queen of Scots Bawbee (6d.),a 1670 1 Merk (13/4) of King Charles II,a 12/- of King Charles I,a 40d. coin struck by Briot as well as a 1/2 Merk (6/8),plus a 1707E 1/-,1707E 2/6,& a 1708E 5/- among others.
Here is a full list of the Scots coins that I have in my collection; King James III (1460-88); 1 Plack (4d.) Mary I,Queen of Scots (1542-67); 1542-58 Bawbee (6d.) King James VI (1567-1625); 1601 1/4 Merk (3/4 or 40d.) King Charles I (1625-49); 1642-50 Bodle (2d.) 1636 40d. (3/4) Briot's hammered coinage. 1636 1/2 Merk (6/8) Briot's hammered coinage. 1637-42 12/- King Charles II (1649/60-85); 1663 Bodle (2d.) 1677 Bodle (2d.) 1678 Bawbee (6d.) 1670 1 Merk (13/4) King William II & Queen Mary II (1688/9-94); 1692 40/- King William II alone (1694-1701/2); 1697 5/- (1 Crown) Queen Anne (1701/2-14); 1707E 1/- 1707E 2/6 (1/2 Crown) 1708E 5/- (1 Crown) Note; reigns are those of the Scots kingship. Here is a list of my Scots traders' tokens; Burntisland 1797 1/2d. Burntisland Vitriol Co. Edinburgh 1790 1/2d. Tho. & Alex Hutchison. Edinburgh 1791 1/2d. Tho. & Alex Hutchison. Glasgow N.D. 1/4d. Alex Ferguson & Co. Breadalbane Highland Whisky (Brass). Note; the above piece circulated as a farthing during the mid-19th Century.
Some relatively `difficult' items there. I gave up collecting UK coins (Brit, English / Scottish etc) a number of years ago and although I do still buy the occasional piece from here or there I collect mainly French coins and silver jetons these days. I do have a decent collection of things Scot's however, including an example of each type of genuine 18th C Scots Trade Tokens' and also a goodly few of the private tokens. My favourite is the Dundee Penny, however I often refer collector friends to the Burntisland 1/2d to show them that Fifers are renowned for their vitriol. These days most people wouldn't know what a carboy was let alone `pure vitriol'. BTW Burntisland is only six miles away from me. One of my favourite coins is the 40/- of Wm and Mary. The one I have is actually oval shaped. It hasn't been rolled and there's no elongation of the lettering in the legends or other tell tale signs as to why it is that shape. Very unusual since the design makes use of the complete flan. It hasn't been compressed either. The thickness is constant.
Scots coins have traditionally been difficult to find in any grade.As I have told you in another section,I do collect Scots banknotes.I have got a few Scots-issued British Postal Orders,including a 10 Quid & a 20 Quid Promotional Postal Order that was issued by the Fife Council.I got them for 1 Quid each in last year's Postal Order Society auction.What bargains they were.I would never sell them.
Ian,I have since managed to get a silver 20/- dated 1695.The interesting thing about King William's Scots coins is that there is no numeral in the King's title.I do know why.It is because King William was King William II of Scotland & King William III of England,but he regarded himself as being the first King William of Great Britain.King Billy's coins are of interest to me,because the Orange Order remember his victory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690,even though the Orange Order didn't come into existence until around 1795.The Orange Order is not only very strong in Ulster,it is also quite strong in Scotland as well.King Billy was a Stuart even though he was a Dutchman. Aidan.
I fully intend to add some Scottish coins to my collection one day. Currently i've been focusing on the 900-1217 period of English history (yes i do mean 1217 not 1216 as the events of John's reign didn't end immediatedly with his death). I'd love to be able to get some Scottish coinage from the 12th/13th centuries if it exists. Did David I issue any?
In short...yes. There were four distinct issues of .925 pennies involving the following mints (although not all were involved with each issue): Carlisle, Berwick, Edinburgh, Perth, Roxburgh and St Andrews). You may want one or more for your collection (as do I), but on a cautionary note be sure to carry some nitro tablets with you before asking for prices. All of them are in the extremely rare category. Ian
Good for you! These coins are becoming as scarce as hen's teeth and those in the VF+ range are even scarcer! You should be aware that i've very little time for sectarianism in any shape or form, no matter it's name and no matter it's claim to fame (or infamy as I tend to see it). That aside, one cannot deny the history surrounding these particular coins.
Funny you should mention 13th Century Sylvester because the only Scottish coins I have are an Alexander III penny and Robert the Bruce penny,both 13th Cent.I can post pics if anyone is interested. As I recall,the Alexander was not too pricey but the Bruce set me back a bit. these are long cross pennies with a star in each quadrant and I read somewhere that you can determine the mint by the number of points on each star.Anyone know about this?
I'm thinking a few thousand pounds per coin? Am i close? Making Athelstan pennies a walk in the park. (And yes i collect those).
The main reason David's coins are so scarce is that they were usually cut in half and quarters for use as halfpennies and farthings. It is far easier to come across a cut piece than it is to find an uncut coin. Ist and 3rd issues are much rarer than the 2nd. The 4th is a posthumous issue in any event. The second issue you will get a VG for somnewhere in the region of £500. You won't get any change out of a grand for one in fine. For the first issue, It depends on whether you would be happy with King Stephens name being on the coin (STIEFNE REX) or David's (DAVIT REX or NDIVIT REX). The Stephen ones usually go for about £800 in Fine. You rarely find the David ones. I did see one being offered at £1,750 about a year ago. It had blundered legends (par for the course with these issues) and the portrait was barely discernable. A bit too rich for my wallet i'm afraid. The Bishop of Carlisle issue ( (DAOVIDR obverse EREBALD ON CAR rev) i've never actually come across an example of in the flesh but it's `up there' alongside the 1st issue in terms of scarcity. The third issue (DAVID or DAVIT obv) are `difficult' in my estimation, exceptionally so if you wanted one from the St Andrews or Roxburgh mint. The Carlisle and Berwick will usually be found for around £500 in VG. No change likely from a grand for a coin in fine. The first issue and from Edinburgh mint is the real target (imho) for a type set, although i'd quite happily settle for a 3rd issue from St A. Who am I kidding, i'd settle for any one of them as a Christmas present.
I knew they'd be expensive! The figures you quoted came as no surprise to me. You should not have mentioned the STIEFNE one you know, i have to keep stopping myself buying Stephen pennies. I only have this one at the moment; Watford type; moneyer = Richard of Shaftesbury I know i'll probably end up buying another one one day, the temptation is too much. I avoid looking in the Norman section of dealer's inventories because otherwise i'll end up with another and i'm really supposed to be trying to find either a 1780s Spanish portrait coin or an Eadred penny.
I remember your Stephen penny from previous correspondence. It's a cracker (and the portrait is obvious when you know what you are looking for ). The David I of Scotland issues are fairly easily confused with the Stephen pennies from Watford, and also Henry I pennies. It is sometimes pretty hard to tell them apart, especially since you would be dealing (usually) with lower grade coins with blundered legends, bits missing, etcetera. Good luck with your quest.
As embarrasing as i find this, when i first saw the coin above in the coin shop it took me ages to find the portrait. Mind you i did have it held upside down at the time. It takes you ages to find it, but once you have you kick yourself for having ever missed it! Plus you can't remember what it was you were seeing before! Good luck... oh i'll need it!
Scots coins are notoriously difficult to find.My late friend,Bill Lampard,F.R.N.S.N.Z. even had trouble finding Scots coins.He only had one - a King Charles I 12/- piece.What I have got in my collection were lucky finds that came my way.The only Scots coins that turn up are the 1707-09 Edinburgh pieces (which are really British coins,but can be regarded as Scots,because of the 'E' & 'E*' mintmarks under Queen Anne's portrait),& the Bodles of King Charles II's undated 1663 coinage.My first Scots coin was a 1663 Bodle (copper 2d.),which cost me NZ$5! I bought it at a coin fair here in Wellington back in 1996. Aidan.
nice coin, and good investment. These days its becoming harder to find examples in that condition. Ian
Here's a link that will interest the collectors of Scots coins here; www.scottishmoney.net/coins/coins.html . Aidan.
