Who is in favour of the 7 Point grading system?

I long for the day when laser scanners will take a "perfect" given coin, measure it at thousands of given data points. Those given points will be called "X". Then we take the subject coin, measure it and we call it "Y". The difference of X and Y will be the grade. The greater the difference, the lower the grade. The closer Y is to X, the higher the grade. No people, no eyes, no subjectivity!

We also can emit a calibrated light source to the coin whereby we can measure the amount of reflection for both color and luster.

It is already being done in other industries and I often mention to people in this industry that they need to get into coin grading. Right now, they have "bigger fish to fry" with defense contractors, security and computer aided designed milling machines, etc.

But wouldn't that day be great? That way a Gem BU or MS65 will always be the same...and consistent to boot!

Something like this...a long way to go, but that day may come sooner than you think!

 

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Except in your example it doesn't appear to take the hit to the cheek into consideration. Or am I missing something?

 

I wouldn't be suprised if something like that develops soon. I'm a software developer, but I focus mostly on business applications. I know someone that concentrates on scientific imaging software. His group developed something for the semi-conductor manufacturing industry. They take a scan of a wafer (round flat silicon wafer with many chips that have not yet been diced) and feed it through the software. It analyzes points on the object and also takes an overall analysis. If a mark is detected that shouldn't be there, they check everything around it to see how big it is, how deep, how long, raised or dented, etc. They compare the results with a database of prior images. They can narrow down the type of defect, how it was caused, and what machine it came from. It might not sound like much (especially with my poor explanation), but it saves millions of dollars. They can tell that machine #1187B, in production line ABC, in the 4,648th step of manufacturing.... has a piece of dust on a certain part.
The same exact concept could be used to identify Morgan and Peace VAMs. It could probably also be used to grade coins.

 

Susan...that was just a draft image of a generic laser scan to give all an idea that this technology may come down the pike. You will be able to define how much data you wish to get by increasing the data load from one point to hundreds of thousands of individual reference points on a surface. To do this, you will need at least two coins...the reference coin (given) and one to be compared to the given. Greater the differance, the lower the grade.

 

Thank you for the lovely compliment, Richard. You also make a good point about everyone agreeing with the grading system. If grading were to be done by laser technique, how many collectors could afford the equipment necessary. Seems to me that all that technique would do is insure a secure future for the TPG's who would be the only ones who could afford the technology. Although I would agree that it would be the best way to technically grade a coin.

 

Ed,

Sorry. If that day ever came I would quit collecting. All the fun would be gone. I wouldn't want a machine to collect coins for me I want to do it.

catman

 

You, me, we all can collect them...but somehow we have to eliminate the human element of grading, especially for professionally graded, certified and slabbed coins

 

It gets even better than that. It then creates an "urgent" need to get those old slabs in "compliance" with the new technology. The grading companies would in effect be starting all over again in the grading business with out ever admitting any mistakes. All former digressions will be attributed to the former lack of laser technology--something William Sheldon might appreciate hearing for a change if he wasn't dead.

This will fly too, at least in America. We are just in love with complicated solutions. That's why a simpler grading system won't work in America and why a our current 11 point system probably wouldn't work in Australia--two different cultures. When an Australian hears a duck quacking he says "that's a duck quacking." No, no, no that's too easy for us. We would run home, boot up, and consult with Encarta to see if Bill Gates "validates this reality" with an Encarta duck sound.

 

I agree that it would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to this hobby,

But lets explore it!! one given coin for each grade, which would be subjective since the machine cannot grade without a given,this given coin would need to be graded by a person and subjected to their own subjective opinion,, so any grades submitted by the machine would be the impression of a selected few as to the grade,

Now I dont know about you but I have a problem having most things controlled by a few people especially my hobbies.

 

While we're daydreaming here, how about this. With future (or current) technology, every coin could be graded relative to each other by this hypothetical grading machine (needs a good name) how about Hal, the coin grading supercomputer or HCGS.

For example: Of the 100,000 1893-S Morgan Dollars minted, 19,507 have been graded by HCGS, yours is the 1,012th best example with 1,011 grading better and the rest in worse condition.

No need for any scales at all. Hey, that might actually work.

 

While I do like the 7 Point grading system,I have seen dealers grade coins as 'gVF' or 'aEF'.The former indicates that the coin is better than Fine grade,but it is not quite up to VF standard.The latter is stating that the coin is very close to EF,but
it does not quite match the EF standard.

 

But lets explore it!! one given coin for each grade, which would be subjective since the machine cannot grade without a given,this given coin would need to be graded by a person and subjected to their own subjective opinion,, so any grades submitted by the machine would be the impression of a selected few as to the grade...

Usually when a database is compiled, a number of subjects (coins with the same year and mint mark) would be measured. Take 10, 20, 50 of the same coin all deemed, for instance, MS65. Take 10 coins from PCGS, 10 from NGC, 10 from ICG and so forth. All of these are measured for x, y and z values whereby a collected average is determined for a given location (cold be 100,000 differant data points) on a single coin.

When I state given, given is based on an extensive database...not just one coin. After everything is compiled, you have your "given" coin/database where everything is measured and compared against. They would be called Delta values...the greater the value, the less the grade.

The laser scanner would actually be more available than a senior grader working at one of the TPG's. No travel, no vacation, no benefits...can grade 24/7.

I am sure that people laughed at the thought of DNA "finger-printing" or retina scans, but neccessity will always breed inovation...and there is a huge neccessity based on thread ather thread dealing with subjective grading.

 

Funny you should mention that.

 

As the old saying goes,"You won't be able to please everybody".

 

Hey Mate

Aidan, don't you use the same system we use in Australia?

Let's stick with our easy to grade coin system until they come out with the high tech lasers in the States.

The 70 catagories drive me nuts.
i stick with the simple plan. Maybe thats why I collect Auzzie coins

from South Florida USA (Unattached suburb of Australia)
take care mate

 

Richard,yes,here in New Zealand,the dealers stick to the same system as the Aussie numismatic trade.By the way,the auction of the W.H. (Bill) Lampard Collection is coming up in early April.It is being sold by Noble's in Sydney.Bill Lampard had some really good Aussie coins,including the extremely rare 1922/1 3d. & an 1860 Rememberance type Hogarth,Erichsen & Co. 3d. among others. Bill Lampard & I were very good friends.He personally showed me his collection in sections.

 

I like numbers, but the 70 point scale does not seem like the best implementation of a number system. How many of the 70 are actually used with any regularity anyway? The fault I see with the 11 point MS scale is that it is not readily usable by the majority of the members of the coin collecting community. Even the professional graders have "a bit" of trouble using it consistently/repeatedly. Numbers, or letters, or words do not really matter to me, but whatever the system, it should be well defined, easily understood and usable by the masses that possess even a modest level of skill. The current system, especially the MS grades, seems to be too much "all about the money".

 

I like numbers,but I am one who reckons that a complicated problem can be simplified to get a simple answer.
This is true of coin grading systems as well.

Aidan.

 

1-poor
2-not so poor
3-frickin great