Question for eBay sellers re Slabs

I recently bought an 1858-O half (if you'd like a look : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3953317472&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT).

I liked the look of the coin, and wasn't especially swayed by the slabbing by NumisTrust (NTC).

Out of curiosity, though, I wanted to see how NTC rated, so I went to this site: http://www.greysheet.com/.

I was a little surprised that NTC isn't even on their radar screen.

A google search found a thread on the Coin Talk site about NTC. It suggested people here had neutral to negative assessments of this slabber. So I assume NTC, were it rated, would be around the bottom of the list. That implies an NTC slab (sight onseen) might sell for maybe 30% of greysheet prices.

So, here's the question, especially for any of you with experience selling on eBay:

Would a slab from a bottom tier TPG be seen by sophisticated buyers as a virtual guarantee that the true grade of the coin is less than stated? Ironically, might the coin actually sell for more outside of its slab?

 

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You have purchased a very nice VF coin. Sounds like you have followed some very good advice, buy the coin and not the slab. I don't think a sophisticated coin collector would be caught dead with any of their coins in an NTC holder. Also, NTC isn't at the bottom of the list. I think SGS holds that distinction.

 

Thanks, cdb1950.
I guess that means when (if) I ever get sophisticated, I can crack that slab open and put the coin in my album .

 

Perhaps I was a little harsh with the 'wouldn't be caught dead' remark, but a coin in an NTC holder certainly doesn't offer much to impress a sophisticated buyer. A sophisticated buyer would buy the coin and not the slab, which you have done. (You might already be sophisticated!)

Keeping your coin in an NTC holder might be a good thing for long term storage, but it would probably look real sharp in your album, too.

 

Could it be that, that grader got lucky that day, and guessed correctly??
therefore NGC/PCGS agreed & crossed it??

 

cdb1950
I have seen nice coins in NTC slabs and would be proud to own any of them...I look at the coin NOT the slab.

Speedy

 

Cool! You might already be a sophisticated buyer, too.

This gentleman's coin is also very nice and would be a fine addition to a collection. However, as has been mentioned before, though some NTC slabbed coins have successfully crossed over into PCGS and NGC slabs, I don't think this one will. It seems to me that the coin is a nice VF, even though it is graded XF.

Would you be proud to own this one as an XF or a VF? Would you feel a little cheated or tricked that someone is trying to convince you that this is an XF coin?

 

It's a beautiful coin and I'd also be proud to own it. However, if I were going to show it off among knowledgeable collectors/dealers, I'd take it out of the NTC slab; NTC's reputation is tarnished, even if they do get it right from time to time. I'd also get it regraded by one of the top-tiered TPGs, but not as a crossover - I'd crack it open first before sending it in raw (especially to PCGS) to avoid too much downgrading due to a "stigma" attached to an NTC slab no matter if it's graded accurately or not. There's a recent thread on this http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=4392 .

In any instance, I would certainly keep it inside some sort of protective encapsulation.

One point can't be emphasized enough: it's the coin, not the slab.

 

Yes sir I would be proud to own that coin.
When your proud to own a coin the grade has nothing to do with it...a MS-64 1909SVDB might make you proud where a G-4 would do the same to me.
I agree with GDJMSP
IF you don't agree with the grade just bid what you think it's worth--you shouldn't be looking at the grade anyway...you should be looking at the coin.

Fred
I don't see why you should be ashamed to show a coin in a NTC slab??
I would leave it in the slab to show it to David Q Bowers...it's my coin and they have no say in it...If I like it I like it and didn't ask them if they did.

Speedy

PS
I just now put in a bid for 2 NTC coins....to me the proof franklin is worth the price even if the grade it wrong.

 

Goes to credibility of the witness.

I would be way out of my league if I were showing ANYTHING to Q. David B. (BTW, I'm currently reading his GREAT Red Book of Morgan Silver Dollars.) It's one of my few character flaws - I don't like being in a position to have to be on the defensive when showing off coins. Exception: I keep a couple NTC and other un-tiered slabbed coins around for teaching purposes to show differences in grading companies.

I also will buy an NTC-slabbed coin if it's something I want, but I'm very careful to presume it's gonna grade at least a couple points lower and bid accordingly. Come to think about it, I'll even bid on an SGS "slab" if I think the coin is worth anything. Heck, I'll bid on anything if it's worth my while.

I guess I get really agitated and frustrated when I see some poor novice who bids MS-67 prices on an MS-62 coin in an NTC slab, something I see far too often. I want to strangle NTC and especially the seller for having the temerity to even list a coin at the NTC grade.

 

???

Mine too...I was just using his name as an example.

I would bid on a SGS coin too but ONLY if it was under $10.00 with S&H.
To me a coin is a coin...there is just one thing...it either has a case of plastic around it or it doesn't.

Speedy

 

Speedy, your enthusiasm and your affection for your coins is inspiring! No foolin'. I don't doubt that you will be a real force in numismatics someday.

 

Many GEMs can be found in these 'third teir' holders, but one must really know how to grade their series of choice. In other words if say you are building a Franklin set, being able to grade and spot problems will help you indentify problem coins and keepers. Problem coins tend to be the norm in some of these holders, problem or overgrading....

I have found many lovely examples in these holders, however I was able to examine the coin in person...

The concensus would say that the bottom feeders tend to over grade, and I am in agreement with that, but I also find sometimes they screw up the other way and undergrade......

Develope your grading eye, learn the nuances of your series of choice, and treat these holdered coins as raw coins and pay accordingly with respect to current market conditions. Many bargains abound out there, but the eye must be sharp to spot them...


HepKitty

 

I found some gems also from the "other" grading services when I could view the coin closely, and IF pictures of the coin was adequate enough to buy online (i.e., ebay). Buy the coin, not the slab...we all hear that and most here practice it.

Where it gets interesting is when you CAN'T view the coin closely or if the pics are not adequate to view the coin. With that said...IF I can't see the coin in a NTC holder, I will automatically in my mind reduce MS grades by 2 to 4 points and circulated grades by 5 to 15 points (Sheldon Scale). I bid accordingly to "my" grading deductions. IF I get lucky and pick up a coin that really was graded properly to ANA standards...that's a bonus. But rest assure, I may bid, for an example, a EF40 coin at VF25 prices.

Also, I have seen many NTC Lincolns that looked like the were either dipped or perserved in some fashion. Definitely not naturally toned so I am very careful when I look at their slabs.

As for SGS (Star Grading Service)...just remember they are NOT a grading service. They are just a bogus grading company set up, operated, and owned by the power seller Aboncom on ebay which prey on newbies with the ultimate promise of MS70 and PR70 coins. One of the reasons why they are NOT listed in PNG because they are just that...a fraud and are the lowest of the low.

 

NTC Slabs

Question:

I have 2 NTC coins that I want to have re-graded by NGC. How does one crack the slabs? I have tried and it seems nearly impossible. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

 

It is almost like surgery...

I use two large pliers...one to hold and the other (with a wire cutter blade) to break the perimeter of the slab like cutting open a can of peas. Use eye protection as sometimes the plastic will fly around.

Some use a hack saw to again, cut the perimeter of the slab.

Afterwards, I "fan" off any dust or plastic shavings with a piece of paper (back and forth motion like cooling yourself on a hot day). Don't stick your head over the coin and breathe. Water droplets from your breath will ruin a Proof coin in a heartbeat.

Make sure the coin ends up on a "coin approved" soft material as the last thing you want is to chase your coin around as it rolls on the ground.

I seen it happen at a coin show as a Morgan Dollar hit the floor. There was an instant "GASP" and "shocked Oh My God silence" from the people around it listening to a raw coin rolling around, and likely losing a grade or two because the slab-cracker was not careful!

 

Another thing that works for me is to firmly grab the holder, the top in on hand and the bottom in the other hand, and twist back and forth. The seal around the edge will crumble and the two sides of the slab will come apart easily. Be sure to use all the precautions described above when popping the coin out of the inert plastic holder.