First Visit to a Coin Shop. Did I buy a cleaned coin?

This post (my second) is admittedly part story, part question. A few months ago, I posted about whether to complete my grandfather's Indian Head Penny collection, and in part due to the positive feedback I received I decided to do so. After reading Richard Snow's Indian head penny book to learn a bit, today I went to the (only?) nearby coin shop to buy some coins to add to the collection.

Sadly, it was not the experience I had hoped. I'll admit I was a bit nervous given my ignorance and being new to the hobby. But I told myself that I was an ideal customer. Someone young but with some cash to spend, new to the hobby, and ultimately willing to complete a collection that still needs all the major pennies. Perhaps I was being unrealistic in hoping that the owner would want to chat about the collection, suggest good coins to buy now and which ones to wait on, talk me through the coins I was buying so I felt comfortable. Nonetheless, I was disappointed when he just asked me which coins I wanted, I admitted I was new to the hobby and gave him a few of the cheapest dates (admittedly, as somewhat of a test to see if we could build rapport and trust), he handed me a few coins without any explanation, I purchased them and that was that. It was very transactional. While perhaps my expectations were unrealistic, I'm bummed that if I want to continue the hobby I'll probably now have to turn to ebay and the like rather than foster a good relationship with a local brick-and-mortar store. I'd just so much rather learn things in person than try to piece things together through ebay auctions and forum posts. Call me old fashioned

So now my question. One of the coins I purchased was quite striking. Upon returning home and reading up some more, I now believe it must be a cleaned coin. It's super crisp, has few signs of wear on the date or "United States of America," and cost me 10 bucks. It's also seems really thick (not sure why). Do others agree it must be cleaned? If so, should the owner have told me that before I bought it? Not sure what the etiquette is. If it is cleaned, it is pretty much worthless?

Thanks.

 

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First, please never hold a coin like that again.

 

Unfortunately, @Blonegilligan , not every brick & mortar dealer is nice. It may just be that he is fighting a losing battle trying to compete with the online dealers. You might want to try to "warm up" to him a little to see if he opens up.

I can't say whether your IHC has been cleaned or not, but I surely don't recommend that you hold any coin in that manner. The oil from your skin can damage the coin.

Chris

 

Haha. Like I said, completely new to the hobby

 

Please take clear pictures of the obverse and reverse of the coin and attach as full size that way we can see the coin better to answer your questions. Thanks

 

If it is cleaned, it won't be worthless, but depending on how disfiguring the cleaning is, the value could be reduced by 30-60% or more compared to an uncleaned coin of otherwise similar condition.

 

The 1862 small cent is a little larger in dia. and weighs about 50percent more than those minted in bronze starting in 1864; so yes it is thicker.

 

Interesting. That may well explain why it feels so much more substantial than the others....

 

Those do look like hairlines on the obverse.

Chris

 

Here is some history for you. In 1857, when the small cent replaced that large cent, the first cents were made of copper-nickel and were heavier than the modern cent and the bronze cents which were introduced in 1864. The idea was that the government waned to make it seem like the new cent was a cent, even though it wasn’t. Acceptance of the new coins was the goal.

The first small cents had the Flying Eagle design. It was a very attractive design, but it did not always strike up well. In 1859, the Indian design was introduced with the weight and composition as the Flying Eagle Cents. The reverse was changed in 1860 with a small shield added at the top and a modified wreath.

The design remianed the same until 1864. That year there were copper-nickel cents and bronze cents with and without the designer’s initial “L.” The “L” stood for Longacre. The bronze cents, which were similar in size and composition to the Civil War tokens, that were issued privately during the war, had the same composition until 1982 with the mint introduced the zinc and copper plated cents we have today in a cost cutting move. The piece you purchased, an 1862 “thick, white” copper-nickel cent, is one of the most common dates.

That might be too much information, but that explains why your cent is thicker and “different.” I collected Indian cents when I was high schoool, which was in the 1960s. So yea, I’m old.

 

Yes cleaned. And it was no deal in the condition (good) for $10. I’d try to find a more helpful dealer or go to a coin show and try and make some contacts

 

Thanks for the history lesson and for confirming my suspicions about the cleaning. On the bright side, at least it wasn't an expensive mistake.

 

$10 isn't a rip off price. I call it VG details cleaned. Probably a $7 coin as far as market value. As stated above, the copper-nickel composition for this date made and the thickness is normal.

 

Two of the fundamental skills that one needs to grade coins are, learn what the design of the coin looked like when it was new and learn what mint luster looks like.

Here is an 1863 copper-nickel Indian cent in MS-64. This piece is high end for the grade.




First note all of the detail that is in the design. As the piece circulates, it loses those details over time. For many the "LIBERTY" in the head band is an indicator, but as you learn more about grading, it becomes one of the more important factors.

Next is mint luster. When a coin is struck, the metal flows under many tons of pressure. That flow creates contures that play with the light when a coin is swirled under a lamp. That's way you see collectors and dealers doing that when they are examining a coin. Once that surface is worn off a coin, it cannot be restored. That is one way to tell if a coin has been cleaned.

 

The coin you purchased is not a very high grade coin but certainly worthy to own for your collection. You might want to post the coins you want to acquire in the Want Lists forum right here on coin talk. You won't be able to hold the coin in hand but you'll be able to see photos of those coins that are offered to you. You will most certainly be presented with more choices than your local coin shop.

Joe

 

It is interesting to note that the style of date on the Indian Cents changed from year to year. Sometimes the date was big and fancy (1874 to 1879) and sometimes it was small and plain (1872-3). The dates were added to the dies each year and were not consistent in their fonts from year to year.

 

Yes, go to ebay and buy these.

I find LCS (local coin shops) hard to compete with online venues, especially on low cost coins. They just have too much overhead. Thats why a $7 coin sells for $10 there.

 

Some dealers want to develop collectors (customers), while others just want to sell what comes in off the street. One will be in business longer.

 

There is absolutely no need to buy cotton gloves. Just hold the coin by its third sides, the edges.