The bottom coin in lot 15 of the upcoming Solidus auction (Apr. 22) is most likely a fake. These coins have been discussed before in other forums. I contacted Solidus a week ago letting them know, but they haven't gotten back to me about my concerns and haven't yet pulled the coin. Here's a link to the fake coin report: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-19542
I was going to comment on this and mention another coin in the same auction I am sure is a fake. Instead I waited to see what more senior members of CT would have to say about exposing fake coins in an open auction. There were zero comments. Is it considered unacceptable to post such comments here? I would think that exposing fakes that other CT members might consider bidding on to be a practice that is encouraged.
I was had by one of these coins from a dealer but was fortunately able to get a refund. But the same dealer had another of these coins in an upcoming auction, and despite the fact that they refunded me from the prior auction, they still didn't pull the current auction fake. I think it ended up going for 130 euros! If there are questions about coins in current auctions I don't see why they shouldn't be discussed on this forum for the benefit of everyone...especially if the dealer has already been contacted and not responded.
We generally call out what we believe to be fakes. However, if we are unsure, it is frowned upon to make such a statement. At least for me, if I don't know for certain, I don't rush to say one way or the other.
I understand that you don't want to have every member with an opinion slinging claims about authenticity this way and that, but in the mix there should be those who can post actual reasons why a coin should be shunned. I would welcome comments about a coin I want to bid on if a member has valid reasons that the coin is not authentic. I see this as a service from CT that would be appreciated. No?
Agreed. But again, if one does not have a degree of certainty, they shouldn't comment. My father always said it's better to keep your mouth shut and look ignorant rather than open your mouth and confirm it.
I won’t comment specifically because I don’t know, but generally I appreciate these threads just to see the discussion and try to learn how to spot counterfeits.
As mentioned, I like reading these threads when it's reliable. See if I can avoid the noid. But I am sick and tired of knuckle heads that don't know what they are talking about labeling things fake they know little about and site next to no proof (we've seen that A LOT around here). I believe you are correct here. Very disturbing that they have multiple possibly fakes and haven't even responded to your concern.
It's amazing what people will believe or not believe when they have a financial stake in the outcome. Perhaps the desire of the auction house to make a profit clouds their judgment, causing them to view Nathan P as a crank.
I don't think so. How much money would they stand to make on this particular lot? Just a few dollars at most. The more likely explanation is perhaps laziness or just the standard human unwillingness to admit a mistake. I really do wonder where these coins came from. They basically all showed up at the same time and made their way to just a couple of auction houses. From who did the auction houses get these coins? They obviously haven't been sitting in a private collection somewhere for the past 50 years.
Interestingly, the coin I was sure was a fake in the current Solidus auction has been withdrawn. The coin in question is the bottom coin in this lot of three. Do our CT experts agree? Other than the fact that the coin is very rare and has been placed in a group lot, there are other signs of it certainly not being genuine. How many can you spot?
To be honest, I don't see anything that sticks out to me. However, there is a lot of speculation that the "PRI" denarius is not authentic and never was. I've watched and participated in discussions concerning this MA denarius and I believe the consensus is that it was not part of this issue.
I'm not quite ready to say that unquestionably genuine LEG PRI denarii don't exist at all. I will say however that I've never seen one in my collecting lifetime; I've endured instead an intermittent trickle of all sorts of fakes. This is a new method to me; if you look at the present coin from a bit of a distance, it's pretty clear that PRI has been re-engraved from XXI. Cleverly done really, in its nasty little way. The fact that an excessively rare and intensely desirable type like LEG PRI was offered unheralded in a group lot speaks poorly of either the knowledge or integrity of the auction house (or both, I suppose.) Phil Davis
While I agree that there is speculation that the PRI denarius may not exist, there are others who believe it an authentic MA legionary coin. This copy from a November 28, 2018 sale looks pretty authentic to me. One of the issues I have with the one withdrawn from the Solidus auction concerns the letters P and R. Neither of them look right. It looks to me as if someone formed them out of XX. Also, the finish on almost all MA denarii is worn and smooth from handling. That on the withdrawn coin is all worked over as if trying to hide the fact that the XX has been made into a PRI. If only the PRI area had a worked over appearance, it would lead to suspicion. Working over both sides of the coin makes the change more acceptable as a part of the coin's general appearance. I do believe the PRI MA denarius does exist, but I don't believe the coin withdrawn from the Solidus auction is a legitimate one. I do applaud their removing it.
Its easy to condemn, but harder to verify. We should always give some leeway or benefit of doubt to dealers. First the condemnation comes in. Then the dealer has to do some research. If a situation is obvious they can easily withdraw a lot but when it is not obvious and when others disagree on a condemnation they have to make a decision to withdraw or not. All of this of course is depending on time frame, how long do they have until the lot closes, contact the owner, obtaining written (or otherwise opinions)...it gets complicated and sometimes lots are hammered down before one can get a consensus. I'm making general comments here, not about the OP or any of the other coins posted. I'm just making comments based as a dealer of many years. It's not easy being a dealer, and honestly as a 'bottom feeder' I can only speculate as to how much the large dealers have to deal with in this regard.
There is an extensive discussion on the Antony legionary coins including the so called LEG PRI here: http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=70907.0 If anyone hasn't read the post above it is very informative and I highly recommend it. It has posts by two well known numismatists and I refer to it often. I've added both LEG PRI photos to the discussion.
