Grading companies

The discussion about grading companies sort of piqued my interest to try and obtain some graded coins.

I am attempting to obtain the best coins I can afford for my Lincoln Wheat album. So far I have 1935 through 1946 mostly in uncirculated condition. Some of them purchased from a local coin store and some online. This page is full, but I am trying to upgrade eight of the cents to uncirculated or better.

I know the off-the-chart grading companies often grade coins with MS70, when the coins clearly do not rate a perfect mark.
After receiving my two so-called MS70 cents, a 1938p and a 1935p I was very pleased with the coins. Of course, as far as I am concerned the two cents probably would grade closer to a solid MS64-65. Which, by the way, do most of the coins on this particular page of my album. I paid a little over $20.00 total plus shipping for the two coins. These were :hammer: busted out of the slabs and put lovingly into my special Dansco album.

So, in the long run, I feel the purchase was right in the ball park for my needs, and might be a good way for others to find the 'not-quite-perfect' coins for your album. Just another view of something that we tend to distrust and overlook as a source of coins for our collections.

jeankay

 

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Most of those companies are not THIRD party graders. One person (company) buys, grades ands then sells them. They do this to increase their profit. Judging from the quantity available, their plan appears to be working.

As for your specific coins, IF they are 65's, you pricing was OK assuming you were not soaked for shipping. If either is a 64, you paid too much. The greysheet list 35 @ $12 and the 38 @ $6 in 64. Just for comparison, I paid $35 for my 35 and 38 both NGC 66's - shipping included. Granted, I think I did well, but they are available

 

Jeankay,
Could you post pics?

I'd hate to see you to continue to buy overgraded slabbers, even if you know what your getting. Even if your getting fair deals, it just encourages the shyster self slabbers.

Big swings in price float around subtle differances in quality. If not careful...it's easy to get taken in by those "deals".....
Grading mint state copper is an art and is very difficult, it's not just marks or dingers that count. It is strike and originality that matters a whole lot as well, and being mark free may mislead. Various years have character traits and are ignored by most people, who just count the dings. A soft struck mark free coin cannot grade a 65 by any standard, or one that has been dipped or recolored.

Alot of money goes into a gem 65 set of Lincolns.....and is very tough to extract when selling.

 

I would buy a "self slabbed" coin ONLY if I held it in my hand and deemed it worth the money for actual grade it deserved.

Buying them "blind" is too risky. It's like a box of chocolates.

You never know what you're going to get.

 

I agree that buying these encourages the shyster self slabbers.
At the same time I will admit I have bought a few over the years.

With that said, I would like to give my opinion on using Dansco albums for UNC copper. I just won't do it with anything of much value.

Even with great storage habits I have watched red copper turn RB and RB turn BN. Cardboard dust can also form dark spots on red copper.
I started buying Dansco albums when they first came out and maybe they are better now but I learned the hard way and will never put a red copper coin in one again. Just my opinion.

 

If you can get them cheap enough they make great GUN targets. :whistle:

 

35p and 38p for discussion

Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. What I do know is my local coin dealer wants 10.00 for an MS64 (which I looked at and saw some carbon spots on it), and wants 95.00 for a 1938p PCGS PR63RD. I rejected the first and thought the second was over my budget. My aim is to be consistent with a page when adding coins. For the most part I have been able to obtain 63, 64 and 65 for this page at reasonable prices. I have had good luck with my Danscos, have purchased the slip covers and keep all my albums in a cabinet with dessicant packages.

 

That 35 looks nice. It might be a 66. Good buy. The 38 looks like a 64. Cinsistancy is one of the major problems for the spg's (second party graders).

 

Thank You.
I don't expect with anyone to completely agree with me, but as far as I am concerned I got what I had actually expected... and 66 is even better. If I could afford the perfect and therefore most expensive coins I would do so.
This experiment was a trial run for me to see what I would get for my 20$ plus postage. The pictures they show are suppose to be the coin you get... which to me is a big plus when ordering. As far as these two coins, I can see they were the same coins, and I knew they could not possibly be MS70 from what I could see. I was hoping for a range of 63-65 to match the collection in my album. Getting something in that grade is important, anything better is a bonus.

jeankay

 

My 35 and 38

The pictures I posted are the actual cents I got from that 'slab' company.
My objective was to see if I could get a decent grade for the album I am building. Because I started out not being able to afford a much higher grade I thought I should stick to the 63-64, and maybe 65 if I could, all red, for the entire page. This strategy is working pretty good because it gives the page a balance that would be lost if I were to turn to much higher grades. And I know I cannot afford every cent on it in a 69-70 or a proof perfect grade.

I had no illusions when I ordered the coins from this particular company.. I knew none of the ones shown came anywhere near an MS70 in my eyes.
Perfection is what it is, perfect, and not many non-circulated coins will fall into that category.

As far as the MS63 not pictured and offered by the dealer... 95.00... no way would I pay that. My 'local' dealer is one who does not negotiate like some of you other nice dealers might do.

Like many of the other necessities in life, I find it more convenient to shop online. Because of my doggone dratted physical, dietary and allergy restrictions I am not able to travel on my own from town to town to shop. Otherwise I'd hitch up old Betsey and head out in a heartbeat.

All in all, the entire process is truly a learning experience. Between what I have been able to study in books, on the internet, and with great people here and another forum or two, it has helped me gain knowledge about the hobby... a hobby I only began about a year ago.

Thanks to everyone... best to you and your families.

jeankay

 

Just a min....was it MS63 or PF63?? There is a heck of alot differents in MS and PF.

It sounds like you might not know the differents between a Proof and a Business Strike. Coins like the ones you posted above will never be in Proof Perfect grade. That is becasuse they are Business Strikes....coins made for circulation. Now in the Cent Collection there are ALOT of dates where the mint didn't make Proofs, and if they did it was only for ONE mint....such as maybe 1909-P. I don't know of any 1909-S Proof Cents.

Maybe I'm miss reading your post---and you do know all of the differents in MS and PF. If you do...sorry I went on and on. If you don't and want to learn more just ask, and I'm sure you will get TONS of help!

Speedy

 

Yikes 36 and 38

Didn't mean to stir up such a debate, but am happy to have everyone's help when determining the different states of coins and what they should be worth and being able to share the same here for all to enjoy.
I started my serious collection about a year ago, and discovered there was so much to learn about the coins I went on a campaign of doing research online, joining a couple of forums, watching what was going on, checking out other sites suggested which would help me even more... then deciding about how I would approach my collecting.

My first three books were Photograde, The Red Book, and Looking Through Lincoln Cents. Since then I have added The Lincoln Cent Doubled Die, Over Mintmarks and Hot Repunched Mintmarks, The Jefferson Nickel RPM Book update:2002-2002, The Cherrypickers Guide 4th Edition Volume II, and A Quick Reference to the the Top Lincoln Cent Die Varieties, and will soon be getting The RPM Book by Wexler and Miller.

Of course I will never have the expertise many have acquired over their many years of searching and grading, buying and selling coins.

I did learn about circulated, business non-circulated, mint state, mint issue, mint proof and mint silver proof. I am aware that only in rare cases could a business strike be considered a MS70 (no not a proof). I have learned about luster, cartwheels, satin, mirror finished, anomalies, die varieties, and just about everything else... and much of it from reading the books I have acquired, and much of it from being on the forums and getting help from all of you .

Even though I am a novice, I pick up on these things quite quickly. Research is always in the front of my mind when pursuing numismatist work or genealogy or archaeology, or whatever my passion is for the time being.

The only proof coins I have came from mint sets and purchases elsewhere.
The most fun I have had so far is roll searching for that nearly perfect business non-circulated coin for my album. I believe I have gone through at least 50,000 coins in this past year searching for coins that will meet my criteria for my albums. So I had to learn about MS, PR, slabbing companies, dealers, photograding my own coins, to determining which coin I will place in my album.

I purchased the two cents so I could see how that company would grade their coins. I figured that if they said MS70, chances are the coins would be more like MS63-65, maybe less. Most of us cannot tell the difference between MS63-65. And, I think some professional graders might also have difficulty with every single nuance that makes a coin grade one way or the other. Or they simply don't care and will label coins at higher grades than the coin deserves.

The only coin shop in my area, more than 35 miles away, that has any sort of normal hours has two expert numismatists. Both of them have said that I have a 'good eye' for not only choosing good coins but also for finding coin anomalies.

I think maybe I am on the right track. And getting help and opinions from so many different people here and on other forums is helping me gain knowledge I would not otherwise have. And, making mistakes is very much part of learning.

Thank You All,
jeankay

 

grading co....

i'm trying to post an emoticon to express myself...........no luck though!

 

Oops... so sorry. (

The coin in the picture is the one I actually purchased from that 'slab' company.

The coin the dealer had has the PCGS PR63RD, and I don't have a picture.
But, I did look at it and it did not impress me $95.00 worth.

It winds up that I feel much better about getting a coin that fits my collection theme for a price I am not ashamed to have paid. So far the most I have spent on one Lincoln cent is $15.50 from the dealer. It was an MS65RD 1939s.

This coin collecting is quite a challenge, and a great learning experience for me.
Seeing different coins from all over the world, and banknotes... and so on, makes it difficult to stick with my goal.

Thanks for keeping me on course and helping me understand these differences in what you see, what it is, and what to expect in selecting 'gems' for my collection.

jeankay

 

That's very much okay Grizz.
If I am going to talk about these objects and objectives I need to be a bit clearer about my meaning and intent and express it so it makes sense to others.

It is great that I have everyone here and in other forums looking out for my best interest in these areas because it helps me to learn what I need to know to make the best decision for the dollars I spend to get cents... or, sense... ;o)

jeankay

 

grading co.......

no harm no foul, jeankay.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I was told the same thing by my local shop -- long before my eye was "good" (and presuming it is good now, which may be a bit of a stretch particularly compared to some)....Mike

p.s. I like both of the Lincoln's you posted, and particularly the second one.