Please Help ID This large Japanese Silver Coin

Rims bothered me too. That and this stood out:

 

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Interestingly, the ngc example has odd rims too.

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/japan-yen-y-5.1-yr.31870-cuid-1166638-duid-1451639

 

Hi @lordmarcovan -- just seeing this with time to answer

The one yen has several iterations. The one you picture is the first year, Meiji 3. Here is a page I did a few years ago trying to explain the reading of the coins in general.
http://www.starcityhomer.com/reading-japanese-coins.html

Yours is Meiji 3, or the first year of circulation for the new, modern style coinage.

The first year of the one yen coin can have rim variations, die cracks, etc. It was at the very beginning of the modern coinage and the Japan mint was using machinery purchased from Hong Kong IIRC. People think of Japanese coins not being error prone, but there are plenty of clashes, brockages, and rotations to be found from the early days. The first two years also had variants which showed different engraving approaches on the smaller denominations. And after 1871 there was a brief hiatus after which the coins had a new design, replacing the sunburst reverse with denominations. But, as usual, I digress.

In year 3 the coin was 38.58mm and 26.96 grams. From year 7 to year 20 the weight is the same and the diameter 38.6mm. There is a tiny difference in diameter, enough for the catalog to note, but .02 is pretty small! Year 20 is a transition and from there until the coin ceases production the diameter is smaller, 38.1 with the weight stable. (And there is one oddball mixed in there at 38.3 mm during year 19...).

There are years where the overlapping spines, pearl engraving, shape of a number, etc can distinguish variants, but that is not the standard for year 3.

Year 3 types primarily revolve around the way the yen character appears (there are other variants such as the sunburst on the reverse can come with or without a border, but there are other nuances of which I remain ignorant).

The catalogs specifically refer to type 1,2, and 3. On yours I am having a hard time seeing an exact match. Anyway, this is a graphic I put together using the JNDA catalog of differing years/artwork to give an idea.



For real coins I can't find my original shots, but if you scroll down on this page I do have a couple of side-by-side shots of type I and II. Hoping to have a type III of my own soon! At which point maybe I'll finish up that website a bit more.

http://www.starcityhomer.com/yen-obsolete.html

So, as to your coin, I would take careful measurements, and look at it closely for evidence of casting or other obvious trickery. The yen symbol is hard for me to see in your photo, so I can't really comment, but the shadows make me a little suspect of the top crossbar which should be present in all three types. And, at the end of the day, if you can't quickly count it as a fake, then a trip to ANACS is a very economical way to figure it out. NGC, PCGS, and IGC would also do.

And, if you could get some better shots that would be great. A lot of the cell phones can do pretty well if you set the phone on a stable surface like a stack of books and use a remote to trigger the shutter--some of the earbud sets can do that.

 

Hah, found these--
Type I with the truncated leg

type II full leg:

And this:

 

A little provenance: My Dad's older brother served in Japan during the GHQ era (fall 1945 thru very early 1952; MSgt, USAAF, HQ Squadron, 5th Air Force, Nagoya. He brought back lots of goodies, this among them. It as been in family possession ever since, and for that reason alone I'm inclined to believe it is genuine.

As noted, some of the rim treatment, even on slabbed specimens, shows odd work.

I'm gonna get my very first grading on this...as a precaution, given apparent condition and various other interesting details.

I am very grateful for the interest you all have shown, and the illumination shed on my ignorance about this coin; particularly helpful were Stork and Seattlite86.

When ANACS returns it, I'll share their verdict right here.

Thank you all, sincerely! wlw

 

Happy to help! I’m crossing my fingers for you.

 

Thanks for your info , Stork. You certainly do "deliver" !!

After reviewing your excellent info, I realize that I mis-attributed the OP's coin to Type II, when it is actually a Type I.
My apologies to the OP for that.

And thanks to you S86 for " Getting it right the first time. ".

@Stork I have a further question regarding the dating of Japanese coins.

EDIT : I was going to ask a question about dating the coins but after reading Stork's first posted link the answer became clear.
The Meiji era doesn't start in 1867, even though that is when the Emperor ascended the throne. The Meiji era starts in 1868 which threw my dating off by one year. I used the Portland coins site to learn Japanese coin dating , however the Portland site (I linked it in a previous post on this thread and you also mention it in your link) doesn't mention the delayed start of the Meiji era, thus the erroneous date I gave.
1867 + 3 - 1 = 1869, the year I noted.
1868 + 3 - 1 = 1870, the actual year of the coin.

Thanks again Stork for your information, and especially for your efforts in putting it all together.

I will be "stealing" the links you've so graciously provided and adding them to my "Coin Tools" folder.

Thanks again,

Frank (Hookman)

 

ANACS is in possession. I'll try to be serenely patient while the gears of grading do their work. All will be revealed here, in due time. wlw

 

This is my favorite Meiji dragon type, but I have yet to buy one because nice examples are often a bit pricey. I particularly like the Type I's because they contain no English. I have a few Type I's of other denominations, but not the 1 Yen. And 1870 or 明治三年 was the only year the Type was minted.

And yes, I think the confusion with the Meiji era beginning in either 1867 or 1868 arises from confusing Meiji's enthronement date, Feb 1867, with the beginning of the Meiji era, October 1868. The Meiji Restoration took place in 1867, but the era began in 1868, as stated. I've seen numerous sources vary the starting date between these two dates, but it does depend somewhat on the context. For coins, the era begins in 1868.

As an aside, the "Reiwa" or "令和" era will begin soon when Akihito's abdication completes. Upcoming coins should read "令和元年" to signal the first year of Reiwa.

I will also be curious to see how the Meiji coin grades.

 

ANACS returned the 1870 Type 1 Yen yesterday:

Graded AU 50 Details; Cleaned...S/N 6234867

I'm only slightly disappointed...but fully accepting. Not being familiar with their products, I was surprised that the slab has a radiused upper edge.

I'm gonna offer them a couple of 5-coin lots; one of US Morgan and Peace dollars, and another of large Foreign silver. Maybe something miraculous will turn up.

Thank you all for your generous & helpful comments, and encouragement! wlw

 

Thanks for the feedback. I’m glad it was authenticated but sorry it got a details grade. Good luck with the next submissions!

 

Please keep us in the loop with your next grading Adventures !!

 

Glad it was genuine! Though it has some definite family sentimental value, even in an AU/cleaned condition it's got some monetary value. It's good to have stuff like this in a slab sometimes--and you can afix a small note giving the history of it for any future family members that have an interest.

Shoot a coin like this can lend themselves well to being cracked and put in a type album for some folks--my Japan Type Dansco holds a 55 type II. I'd bought it raw years ago when still pretty much a newbie. Later I got worried about it and had it graded for a second opinion. Then cracked it and put it right back in the album .

 

I would keep it for the grandkids...but they have no interest, zip.
I'll trade it for cash, and keep digging through the other silver.
Surely something wonderful awaits, eh? wlw

 

This used to be something I worried about. Now I don’t really. If they don’t want to collect, my coins will eventually make it into the hands of those who care about them. People like different things. I’ll still try to get my kids and future grandkids interested, but I will be okay with it if they choose other hobbies.