There's a gold coin on ebay the first bid was 15.00(day 1 of auction), the second 36.00(day 5 of auction). An increase of this amount seems very suspicious when there are so few bids over the past 5 days. Any thoughts. Thx
I agree I think there is alot of shill bidding going on. I have bid on quite a few items that there is no bids for a long time, as soon as I place a bid BAM outbid, it's sucks. Alot of thieves on E Bay, alot of honest sellers too. I have never had a problem with a seller at all as far as getting the stuff as advertised and in a quick fashion. JMO Tony
Especially for gold coins, bidders tend to put in higher proxies. This will make the bids go up in much higher increments if a second bidder also puts in a high proxy. Shill bidding is often very hard to spot but can usually be traced with a lot of effort and research. If you want to post the auction link, I'll try to take a look at it tonight if you want.
Tony, you're forgetting that in order to be "BAM outbid", there must have been a higher proxy bid entered before yours. That's not typical shill bidder tactics. Usually they go up one or two increments at a type, probing for the real bidder's maximum, and hoping that if they pass him, he'll take one more shot. I wasn't shilling the time I was first bidder on one of those 99¢ starting bid auctions, for a 19th Century silver coin that I really wanted. After I bid, the auction showed me in the lead with a 99¢ bid, even though my actual bid was $75. Shortly before closing my bid was showing as somewhere around $25. Three snipers showed up in the closing seconds, but they didn't want the coin as much as I did, so I was the winner at a little under $70.
One way to tell if you have shill bidding is to search the buyers recent bids, the last 30 days or so. If there are several bids on the same seller's items, then it might be shill bidding. Also, as described above, a shill bidder will make bids in small increments looking for the real bidder's max, then they will stop and wait for another real bid. This will show up as many bids in a row by the shill bidder on items, maybe 15 times or more. I hope you get your coin at a good price!
Bid I see what you are saying Roy, but what would be the reason the proxy bidder is keeping his bid hidden until someone alse bids. I think my time is being wasted then, they sould just post their bids and I would not have to place a bid only to be outbid immediately. Tony
It's not the proxy bidder who is keeping his high bid amount secret. It's the way bidding is done. Regardless of how high the proxy bid is, only the amount necessary to win the item will be visible.
Ok so how come there is no bid visable till I bid and get outbid immed? My bid might not make the amout needed to win, correct? Tony
Sometimes, I will bid on a coin with an opening bid of 99c. Say it's something I really want, so I bid $50.00. If nobody else bids, I will win the item for 99c. However, if there are other bidders, Ebay will automatically act as my bidding agent (proxy) and increase my bid to the next highest increment. Suppose you were to bid $15.00. Then Ebay would automatically bump my bid up to $15.50. Even though the current bid shows only 99c, your $15.00 bid couldn't win because my butt is covered up to my $50.00 max bid. But, if you were to bid $75.00, then Ebay would automatically bid the next increment over my $50.00 bid, so your winning bid would be $51.00, even though you had bid $75.00. The maximum bid is not disclosed for a couple reasons. Suppose the opening bid was 99c and my max bid of $50.00 was shown. If you wanted to bid $15.00, which would automatically bump my bid up to $15.50, you might decide it wouldn't be worth it to bid because your bid couldn't win. Then I would win the item for the opening bid of 99c, which kind of cheats the seller out of the $15.50 he would have received had you bid. On the other hand, suppose my $50.00 bid was shown and someone didn't really want the item, but knew they would be safe bidding up to my $50.00 bid and still wouldn't have to buy. I would be cheated because I would have to pay the full $50.00 for the item, when I might have won it for the $15.50. The best bet when you want something is to bid the highest amount you are willing to pay. If someone is willing to pay more and your high bid is automatically overbid, then wait 'til next time and give it another shot. Or, your high bid might be more than anyone else is willing to pay, so you win. Also, see sniping.
The bidder with the higher proxy than your bid will show up as the high bidder before you bid. Once you bid, your bid will show and then immediately the bidder with the proxy will show up as the high bidder.
Always remember, in auction sales - EBay or otherwise - it is not the winner who sets the price. If he's the only one willing to bid the seller's minimum, then he gets the item at a price the seller set. If there is at least one more bidder, the "back bidder" sets the price - at one more increment than he is willing to pay.
This is somewhat related, so I'll put it here instead of a new thread. Sniping is really the ONLY way to go on eBay, unless I am going to be at work and I reeeeeeeeeeeaaalllly want an item. Do you think eBay has ever considered anything like a "silent" or "mail bid" type auction where each individual is allowed to bid only once, and the bids are not revealed until the auction ends? The winner would pay the full amount of their bid. This would make the shill bidding impossible. I think someone tried to shill me on an item I really wanted once, so I quit bidding. It is odd when you see a new userid pop up with no feedback and place 7 tiny bids.
I agree. I'm also a sniper. I just find it easier to bid if I'm not going to be around for the end and I don't want to keep matching bids. Also, I'll use a snipe on a Buy It Now or no-bid-so-far auction if I think the coin is worth it. It's my observation that once bidding begins on a coin, the fever strikes and often it's bid far above its true value (IMNSHO). I try to eliminate this by my snipes. Something like a sealed bid such as contractors do for public projects (only these would go to the HIGHEST bidder). Hmmmm. I suspect eBay has thought about it and I doubt the software would be any problem. I'd have to think on it more, but I think the idea has merit.
What I hope they do is institute a policy where any bid in the final 2 minutes (or 5 mins or whatever length seems best) automatically extends the auction an extra 2 minutes, and if a new bid is placed, then it is extended again. This would eliminate sniping, as a bid in the final minute would extend the auction a short time, allowing an under-bidder to bid again. They could call it, "going, going, gone time" or something. I know as a seller, I'd be interested in that. It seems like half to 3/4 of the value of my auctions come from the final couple of minutes. my 2¢ CJD
Don't be too sure that an end to sniping would help sellers. If people pass up auctions that can't be sniped, that would hurt sellers. I do most of my EBay buying with a snipe program that lets me bid when I'm asleep, on a trip, or otherwise unable to be at the computer at the time an auction is ending. I don't bid on Yahoo auctions if I can't be there at the end simply because they do have automatic extensions; and I would probably bid on less than half of the EBay items I do now if they went that route.
YAHOO Auctions has this option available on their auctions. Here's a can of worms.. I agree with Roy's comments, that sniping really encourages every bidder to bid right up to their limit on every auction, which means the seller will get the most for the item being sold. Sniping is an honorable bidding procedure. Were it not for snipers, sellers would receive less for their items. Bidders who were overbid by a sniper had already bid as much as they felt they wanted to pay, otherwise they would have bid more. Every bidder usually has 7 days to place their bids and that's plenty of time to decide what they are willing to pay. Another 2 or 5 minutes shouldn't make any difference. I know that bidders can feel cheated when a sniper overbids them at the last second, but that doesn't change how much they were willing to bid, otherwise they would have bid higher in the first place. The same goes for the sniper. They don't always win the auction, either. If the sniper had wanted to pay more, he should have bid more, because he won't get a second chance.
Bid Sniping? I don`t call it "bid sniping". I call it "anti-shill bidding"! Shill bidders are not always the same seller with different user-id`s. Lots of sellers shill for other sellers as well! These are the REAL pros at shill-bidding! Paid too much too many times!!! I almost always "snipe" unless I place a regular bid on another auction to distract the shillers from what I really want! I hope that does not sound to harsh but that`s the way it works in the "jungle".
Especially if you are on dialup, then go to bid on a coin you've been watching feverishly for a week and find out YOU FORGOT TO SIGN IN. GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Snipe With a sniper I can decide on my final bid and list it. I bid on coins from other parts of the world. I can't be up all hours to check bids ending in Australia during the day for what would be the middle of the night here. Snipes have helped me obtain items I might never before had a chance of purchasing
