On the hunt for a new Byzantium gold coin

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Good luck in your quest AC.

 

Those would be some nice coins to get. Good luck.

 

That is a great looking coin and I am aware of it too BUT without testing the gold we are uncertain if it is John II ( 1118 -1143) or John III Emperor of Nicaea( 1222-1254) . John III did a very messed up thing , he decided to imitate the Thessalonica issues of John II , even the legends that he was not entitled to, so the only secure way to determine between the two is their purity, John II 20 1/2 carats and John III is 18 carats. Also to make it more complex the Latin Empire also minted the exact same type of Hyperpyron.( Also 18 carats.)

Check out this article.

https://www.academia.edu/35195487/J...erpyra_of_John_II_from_those_of_John_III_.pdf

I have been trying to complete my collection of John II coinage and I am now only missing the two Thessalonica Hyperpyron.

Regardless that John coin is Very attractive.

 

Good hunting to you!

 

Good auction to get these coins, Gorny&Mosch high quality ancients auctions on sixbid. You can score a stempelglanz=MS ex. for bargain price.

 

@AussieCollector Be very cautious of 11th century Byzantine coinage, that was the reason for the coin reform (1092) and the birth of the Hyperpyron, the coinage of Alexius after the reform brought order back to the gold coinage, the stuff before the reform was inconstantly bad, some worse than others. I was just reading the headaches it caused for taxes , they were raised dramatically for people paying in the old coinage.
The reign of Alexius and his son John II kept the purity of the coins high, then Manuel Comnenus started lowering it again,. One interesting thing about the market is Manuel's coins are commanding higher prices than his father and grandfather but he issued much more coinage.

I am not an expert in the gold coins , I am just sharing what I have learned in the past year trying to finish my collections of the Comnenus Alexius I to Manuel.

I am missing the Thessalonica Hyperpyron issues for him but I have the rest, his coins are available on the market at reasonable prices. Funny thing is I started this collection from the bottom, the copper coinage.

Here is my John II collection on Forum.

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6945

 

Good question, I do not know exactly when things went bad but I do know that when the Hyperpyron came out it became a new standard and respected by the surrounding country's. It became the standard for a few hundred years. I will do a little more reading to give you a precise answer.

BTW, the hardest coins to acquire in that collection were not gold or electrum. Billion Trachy SBCV-1943 and the tetarteron SBCV-1953v , it is not listed in Sear or Greirson but it is in DOC IV 15.

 

You are correct 1071 it fell to 8 carats, however 50 years before under Michael IV the coins were 23 1/2 carats.

 

They first started to decline in purity in the 10th century going from about 97% purity to around 92% by the year 1000 + started to decline much faster later on..


https://www.jstor.org/stable/3132307?read-now=1&seq=4#page_scan_tab_contents



My Constantine Histamenon Nomisma

 

To start one of my favorite sources for coin info is Dumbarton Oakes Catalog. It was written 1992 but published in 1999. It has for the most part up to date info on the timer period. The best part is it is free now. Look at Page 37 Volume I for info on coinage before the reform.

https://www.doaks.org/research/publ...collection-and-in-the-whittemore-collection-4

it will give you generalized info on why the coin reform became necessary, ironically the half gold pieces Aspron Electrum coinage was the most controversial, people could not test easily how much gold the contained, designed to deceive.

Now you coin posted above is SBCV-1944 Billion Trachy, this is a more commonly found coin, they primarily circulated in Asia Minor and the capital but not in the Balkans. There are two types , you have type A, no mark on the shaft.

Here is another example I have with the mark on shaft. Lot less silver than the one in my gallery but still pretty.


John the II had the most silver in his trachea, around 7%his son Manuel lowered it and Isaac II even further 2 to 3%.

 

Gold coins are ancient jewelry. They are like high quality gems. Good Luck.

 

I am fairly new to gold but everything current that i read said you cannot tell visible but i know the size is off for John II so i would have said John III.

The article I put the link to is very long and the author is just trying to see if it can be done visually with her doing a study of museum coins, a short synopsis is no. However many dealers have their own ways of telling the difference.

Regardless that's my hang up because i am trying to finish the John II collection. Your coin is beautiful and congratulations.