A Rare GERMAN Domitian

Here's a very sought after coin for Flavian collectors.



IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERMAN P M TR P VIII
Laureate head right

IMP XIIII COS XIIII CENS P P P
Minerva advancing right with spear and shield

Rome, January 1-September 13, 88 AD

3.17g

RIC 573 (R2)

You may ask...It's a nice coin with a good portrait and gorgeous toning but what's so special about another Domitian with Minerva reverse? The devil is in the details. This coin has the rare legend spelling out GERMAN rather than the more common GERM. Again, this one was misattributed. I only won the coin by seconds from another eagle eyed Flavian collector!

Let's see your GERMAN's

 

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Congrats Jay! Domitian's 'GERMAN' denarii are extra special.

Here's my example of the type. I think yours has nicer toning.

 

No Germans here, just Germs

 

I don’t know about being eagle eyed,but I was a few seconds too late

Congratulations on landing this lovely rarity

 

A great find, Jay.

 

Thanks guys!

Bing that's a solid coin! Congrats! And as always great coin David.

It's funny how we are all watching the same coins.

 

Here is "the original" Mr. G,though never an emperor. First under Claudius, second under Caligula.

 

Great coins @octavius. Is that the theory, that right facing is under Claudius and left under Caligula? Ive heard that before but what's that based on?

I have one of each as well but my favorite OG (original Germanicus) is from his son.

 

Jay - yes that is how it works out, but on the reverse of the first you can see TI(BERIVS) CLAVDIVS ie Emperor Claudius and on the reverse of the second is the legend C(AIVS) CAESAR (Caligula). Thus Germanicus was honored both by his brother (Claudius) and his son Caligula.

 

Hahaha thanks! Like I said I have both. I even had the note on my descriptions so I knew it, but forgot. Thanks for the reminder!

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-54847

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-63494

 

hate to be the bearer of bad news @Jay GT4 But this coin is a fake cast and a friend of mine got an exact coin with same matching obverse reverse and toning from a fake seller in UK and returned the coin back in 2014 you should ask for refund

 

No doubt there are many forgeries of the reverse type out there, but I have none in my extensive digital black cabinet for this particular RIC number. Plus, the coin has no signs of evident forgery judging from the photo. Style, surfaces, and fabric all look kosher.

 

@David Atherton I can not imagine that your database could possibly contains all coins ever created (whether genuine or fakes)! There are many coins of same types created daily in Bulgaria and else where and come to the market. Many are sold in private hands / dealers or Ebay and no one ever could take a copy of all images of a coins sold! As I said once, This coin is 100% fake and I have seen the exact same coin with same toning and surface etc sold by a notorious fake seller in UK. Now I am a collector and I feel the pain of getting caught by crooks and I just out of sympathy brought this up as I don't like to see others get caught by the crooks! Now its up to @Jay GT4 to be happily ever after with the coin I just said what I had to say!

 

I'm a Flavian specialist and my digital black cabinet is Flavian focused. No doubt there are forgeries I've missed over the past 16 years, I'm just stating I haven't seen a fake example of that particular RIC number. I'll never say a coin is 100% genuine or not based exclusively on a photo.

I would love to see a fake match with Jay's piece because to my eyes it has no evident signs of forgery. My hunch is that you are confusing Jay's rare 'GERMAN' denarius with a run of the mill Minerva, which indeed are commonly faked!

 

From the picture I really doubt if Jay's coin is a fake. It certainly doesn't seem to be cast.

But of course if an exact same coin with the same matching obverse reverse and toning exists, then I could be wrong. Any pictures?

 

I'm never offended when someone points out a suspected fake. So thanks for speaking up.

However...I think the picture is pretty clear and speaks for itself. It's absolutely not cast. You can see the sharp details in the protected areas and the honest wear on the high points. In hand there is no casting seem or sprue around the edge.

Without the so-called match what are we discussing?

 

Guys as I said my friend got this coin and returned it back in 2014 we don't have the image but I had the very same coin in my hand. Now it could be a struck transfer die fake which would make either this or the other as host . But I still can not be 100% confident if this is struck . There are some residual metals around some characters specially on reverse. I highlighted the low relief area with the issues. also the flan seems very regular and circular without any natural irregularity that usually seen on authentic coins. For your comparison I attached 2 genuine coins . Note the flan irregularities and edge splits etc. Also look how sharp the characters are without any residual metals and powdery material around the letters.

 

Transfer die fake is unlikely due to the surfaces, which i take to be due to corrosion.

Again unless there is a clone somewhere I still don't think Jay's coin is a fake.

 

Herr G:


RI Germanicus AE As 27mm struck under Caligula- S-C


A couple of GERMs:

@David Atherton helped me out with my little Germs. I don't foray much into Imperials, so I got a little help from my friends...


Your first coin is:Rome mint, 93-94 AD
RIC 761 (C3), BMC 214, RSC 283b
Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P XIII; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
Rev: IMP XXII COS XVI CENS P P P; Minerva adv r., with spear and shield (M1)



Second coin: Rome mint, 90-91 AD
RIC 721 (C2), BMC 181, RSC 264
Obv: IMP CAES DOMIT AVG GERM P M TR P X; Head of Domitian, laureate, bearded, r.
Rev: IMP XXI COS XV CENS P P P; Minerva stg. l., with thunderbolt and spear; shield at her l. side (M3)

 

Well I am 100% confident it is struck. The "residual" metal is corrosion and can even be seen in the Domitian denarius you posted from cgb. Being too round is not a sign it is fake. I don't know what an Antoninianus from 100 years later is supposed to prove. Anyone who knows what the fabric of ancient coins looks like will immediately recognize this coin as being struck and the corrosion as authentic. I don't think you can get a better picture of this coin. The picture is mine. The dealers picture wasn't nearly as good and yet 3 well known Flavian collectors, including myself, sought out this coin and have no issue with it.

So, we need more than your memory of a friends coin that may or may not have been "exactly" the same from 5 years ago. Also simply being a die match doesn't prove it is fake. With these rare issues many times you find double die matches. I'm not even sure how you would remember that it is a die match or from the same issue 5 years later.