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Awesome coin David, great pick up.

 

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I am familiar with Maier's 'Reader's Digest' translation, but even it doesn't dispute Mason's overall argument about what exactly was on display in the triumph. Maier tends to take Josephus at face value and not understand the wink wink, nudge nudging that's going on. Josephus, after all, was in on the joke.

As far as English translations of The Jewish War, H. St. J. Thackeray's in the Loeb series is the most accurate and scholarly one out there. It really is worth a read.

Also, I highly recommend Mason's Josephus and the New Testament. It can be picked up rather cheaply in paperback on amazon.

 

Which begs the question, how did all those pilgrims get through the Roman siege lines? No doubt the city was full of refugees who had fled there before the Roman encirclement. After the siege had begun I seriously doubt the city was open for arriving pilgrims. Most sensible folks would have avoided the area at all costs anyway!

 

I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match, just accurate information. Your assertion that the Temple coffers were likely depleted by wars end & the Triumph Parade was a "sham" is contrary to accepted history & borders on the ridiculous.

 

Just because history is "accepted" does not make it true. Do you accept everything written by the gossip monger Suetonius as well? Is it even possible to derive "accurate information" through the fog of 2000 years? Certainly there was a true course of events that occurred. Unfortunately all we have to rely on are the reports and studies of fallible humans who all have agendas guiding their words and actions.

 

Well said, Orfew!

 

I'm sorry you have taken this the wrong way. I didn't mean to offend and personally wasn't offended in the least by anything you have posted in the thread. After all, a good honest debate is a healthy thing!

And it isn't just my assertion - it's based on the latest scholarship from the most eminent Josephan scholars in the field. I don't take it lightly.

 

Exactly! The ones who arrived before were stuck inside! The rest stayed away.

We know the temple was looted throughout history of it's wealth. How much was inside the temple in 70? Anyone could make a guess but it would be just that, a guess.

Isn't there a passage in Josephus about Pompey the Great? He went inside the temple and found it empty. Probably more in reference to there being no image of a god inside, but it does say that the utensils were cleansed and then sacrifices resumed. So, there were some items in the temple but probably no where near as much as would be needed to fund the Flavian regime.

 

I think it's likely the sacred relics were still in the Temple (we know for a fact the golden Menorah was still there), but as far as massive amounts of gold, highly doubtful!

Even if some of the treasure was still available, it wouldn't be enough. Mason writes that after the Temple's destruction An unnamed priest and the temple treasurer now manage to win Titus’ favour by presenting him with, or disclosing the location of, hidden treasures: exquisite gold vessels, rare and expensive textiles, exotic spices, and ornaments (6.378–91). These were presumably reserved for the coming triumph, although I argued in Chapter 1 that even so they would hardly account for the treasures displayed then, much less for the construction of the Flavian
Amphitheatre.

Jay, I think you are correct that the bulk of the Flavian booty from the East came from selling off the Jewish captives, not from the Temple itself.

 

Revisionists of all types have attempted to change history to suit their own personal agendas or obscure theories, that doesn't change what has been chipped in stone for nearly 2000 years.

 

For completeness, I thought it appropriate to post the more common Antiochene versions of the type.


Vespasian
AR Denarius, 3.23g
Antioch mint, 72-73 AD
RIC 1559 (C). BMC 512. RSC 643. RPC 1931 (9 spec.).
Obv: IMP CAES VESP AVG P M COS IIII; Head of Vespasian, laureate, r.
Rev: No legend. Vespasian laureate, standing in triumphal quadriga, r., horses pacing, holding branch in r. hand and sceptre in l.
Acquired from Pegasi, May 2005.



Titus as Caesar
AR Denarius, 2.90g
Antioch mint, 72-73 AD (Vespasian)
RIC 1563 (C). BMC 521. RSC 395. RPC 1935 (10 spec.).
Obv: T CAES IMP VESP PON TR POT; Bust of Titus, laureate, draped, bearded, r.
Rev: No legend; Titus stg. r. with branch and sceptre, in quadriga r.
Acquired from Roma Numismatics, December 2009.

 

Nice ones David. Here's my RIC 1559


RIC 1559 Vespasian Antioch denarius

IMP CAES VESP AVG P M COS IIII
Laureate head right

Vespasian standing right with branch and sceptre in Quadriga right

Antioch, 72/3 AD

3.24g

RIC 1559 (C)

Ex-Sphinx Numismatics

 

I must admit I'm still puzzled over the punch marks. Presumably they were to test the quality of the metal. I can see this perhaps being a necessity for precious metal, but would that be true for a bronze coin? Has anyone ever come across punch marks on a bronze piece?

 

I have a bronze which appears to show a punch mark but on a considerably older Southern Italian coin



Laureated and bearded head of Zeus right, at left thunderbolt, dotted border

BΡETTIΩN
warrior attacking right holding shield and spear; below bucranium. Dotted border.

211-208 BC


Scheu 42; HNItaly 1988; SNG Copenhagen 1658; SNG ANS 108.

8.05g

Round punch mark on obverse

 

Thanks Jay for showing that early precedent of the phenomena.

Great coin BTW!