Of Athena(s) Crested Helmets and Owls

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by 1934 Wreath Crown, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Have always wanted an Attica Tet even though they're not all that scarce but never really got round to seriously bidding on one. And the post 'Ebay Fail' also got me thinking....Hey if an XF coin can get you $1 million then how about an AU*….with ALMOST a full crest and ALMOST a full earring:D:D:D

    Acquired this Near East/Egypt tet in AU a few months back


    Near East Tet Obv.jpg

    Near East Tet Rev.jpg



    And then I got lucky with this ALMOST full crested Attica Tet in AU* 5/5;5/5

    Attica Athens Obv.jpg
    Attica Athens Rev.jpg

    Now I just need to find someone with a few extra millions lying around ;)
    Yes I know about the coffins:dead:
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
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  3. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I have an Egyptian imitative. I haven't seen too many of them go by.

    Athens Imitative, Silver tetradrachm
    Obv:– Head of Athena right, droopy eye, crested helmet with olive leaves and bent-back palmette, wire necklace, round earring, hair in parallel curves.
    Rev:– ΑΘΕ, right, owl standing right, head facing, erect in posture, olive sprig and crescent left, all within incuse square;
    Minted in Egypt from . B.C. 420 - 380.
    Reference:– cf. SNG Cop 31 ff., SGCV I 2526 (Athens),

    The metal did not fill the die completely on the obverse resulting in the rough flat high area near Athena's temple. A test cut on the reverse was filled with pitch in antiquity.

    The silver is quite bright making it relatively tricky to photograph.

    From the Harald Ulrik Sverdrup Collection. Ex CNG. From a small hoard of 5 Athenian and 4 Athenian imitative issues.

    Comment provided by dealer-
    "Athenian tetradrachms with this droopy eye and bent back palmette have been identified as Egyptian imitative issues because they are most frequently found in Egypt and rarely in Greece.

    Early in his reign the Egyptian Pharaoh Hakor, who ruled from 393 to 380 B.C., revolted against his overlord, the Persian King Artaxerxes. In 390 B.C. Hakor joined a tripartite alliance with Athens and King Evagoras of Cyprus. Persian attacks on Egypt in 385 and 383 were repulsed by Egyptian soldiers and Greek mercenaries under the command of the Athenian general Chabrias. Perhaps these coins were struck to pay the general and his Greek mercenaries."

    17.157g, 25.3mm, 270o

    [​IMG]
     
  4. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    @1934 Wreath Crown : both of them are lovely, at some point I remember following the second one but didn't bid as I have clearly overdone it with owl tets recently :)

    The first one, I wouldn't be so sure it is an eastern imitation, it looks like one of the early STARR groups; HAs' attribution to van Alfen pl. 11, 2 is total nonsense, that coin is a Buttrey X which has no similarity to your coin. I think NGC attributed it as eastern because of the low weight (15.5g) but that is not a factor as eastern imitations were not necessarily underweight. The style is not so crude either. See one trying to imitate STARR groups here: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1276051
     
  5. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    Thanks @pprp. I don't know much about ancients and only buy something occasionally IF it appeals to me.

    I thought the first one might be an imitation because of the different design/style of the helmet and earrings. Also the owl looks like he's been on a diet.

    The second coin appealed to me because it had a much fuller strike on the obverse. Most of them have much of the crest missing on the helmet or the earrings or a bit of both. I can understand why I had to increase my bid three times in order to secure this piece.;)
     
  6. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Nice example, WC.

    [​IMG]
    Attica, Athens (353 - 294 B.C)
    AR Tetradrachm
    O: Helmeted head of Athena right
    R: AΘE Owl standing right, head facing, olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square.
    16.59g
    21 mm
    Kroll -; HGC 4, 1599

    Ex. Numismatik-Naumann, Auction 52, Lot 126
     
  7. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Nice tetradrachms, @1934 Wreath Crown. I am also surprised to see competition when securing my near full crest. Here is mine, at NGC AU. :cat:

    zz-Athena-s.jpg
     
  8. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Excellent example. The owl looks a little plump, too, which is an added bonus IMO.
     
    1934 Wreath Crown likes this.
  9. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    A beauty. Heres a drachm:
    IMG_3970.jpg
     
  10. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Great example, congratulations! I do not have anything from Athens to show here.
     
  11. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    In contrast to the very nice looking coins above, here's my only Athenian tetradrachm. It clearly fits the description in the paper referenced below of a "pi-style tetradrachm", with it's folded, thick, log shaped flan ("koutsoura") and with the AOE starting from the owl's neck rather than that side of the head.

    "not only are the flans commonly misshapen, but a number of them are so distorted that numismatists and coin collectors in Greece have long referred to them as “logs” (koutsoura); these are the tetradrachms in the form of long, stretched ovals with one or two nearly straight sides"
    - John Kroll 2011 ref. article

    Athens Owl.jpg
    These were hastily restruck in an Athenian program starting from 353 BC to raise revenue during the fiscal crisis in the aftermath of the Social War (357-355 BC). I find it hard to tell with the wear if this is type Pi II or type Pi III - I lean toward type II.

    Add a few bankers marks and you have an ugly but interesting coin aka lump.

    Attica, Athens (353-294 B.C) AR Tetradrachm
    Obv: Helmeted head of Athena right
    Rev: AΘE Owl standing right, head facing, olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square.
    Size: 17x28mm, 17.04g
     
    zumbly, Andres2, Alegandron and 5 others like this.
  12. thejewk

    thejewk Well-Known Member

    You're all making a philosophy lover jealous. Lovely coins .
     
    Sulla80 likes this.
  13. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Another contrast is the transitional style.

    Athens, AR Tetradrachm

    Obv:– Head of Athena right with eye seen in true profile, wearing crested helmet ornamented with three olive leaves and floral scroll
    Rev:– owl standing right, head facing, to right ATE in large lettering, to left olive sprig and crescent
    Minted in Athens c. B.C. 393 - 370.
    Reference:– Flamen p. 126, 1 (Pi I); Svoronos Athens plate 19, 17; SNG Cop -
    Ex-Forum Ancient Coins
    16.699g, 24.31mm, 270o

    The following information was provide by the dealer with the coin:-

    "Transitional style tetradrachms include all of the wide spectrum of variants with the eye in profile issued after the classic "old style" almond eye tetradrachms but before the broad thinner flan "new style" tetradrachms. Recent research has classified variations of the transitional style - Pi Type, Quadridigité Style, Heterogeneous Style and sub-groups of the styles, and proposed chronologies for the different styles and groups.

    This coin is the earliest transitional type, the first Pi style type, essentially identical to the "old style" with the exception of the eye in profile. The "Pi" designation is based on the P shape of the floral spiral and palmette ornamentation on the helmet bowl. The coin can be classified as Pi style, group 1. The floral ornament on examples this early do not yet resemble Pi."

    [​IMG]
     
  14. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    Very nice example, @maridvnvm. Great to see a complete Pi-style Attica Tetradrachm. It is surprisingly hard to find complete ones these days. Don't know why.
     
    Sulla80 likes this.
  15. AngelDeath

    AngelDeath Well-Known Member

  16. Carl Wilmont

    Carl Wilmont Well-Known Member

    Here's my Athens tetradrachm, and the much smaller (9 mm, 0.75 gm) obol, which was 1/24 the value/weight of a tetradrachm.

    Does anyone have a denomination smaller than an obol? How about the smallest, a hemitartemorion, which weighs in at 0.09 gm?


    athens tetradrachm.jpg

    Athens Obol.jpg
     
  17. 1934 Wreath Crown

    1934 Wreath Crown Well-Known Member

    There are always 10-15 specimens of the Attica Tetradrachm available on any decent auction for ancients. Why then does it continue to be so popular and stubbornly hold on to a relatively high value of $1,500+ for a good example???

    I can understand that for a modern coin with known mintage or rather survival numbers but an ancient with the possibility of more hoards to be found!!

    It’ll be interesting to hear from the experts.
     
  18. pprp

    pprp Well-Known Member

    Owl tets are well known even to non-collectors and are so very popular; there is always demand. Then there are people who can't just have one but are collecting different styles/variations etc. That's the politically correct version. The conspiracy version is that prices are manipulated at auctions so you will hardly get a deal. You can ask yourself who consigns all these hundreds of tets in auctions all around the world and who is controlling the numbers that hit the market? If the said 20.000 tets hit the market at the same time, their price will surely drop. Is the consignor that patient? I don't think that the scavengers who took this hoard out of Syria would be patient enough to sell the hoard over 5-10 years. In my opinion a few people from the west world who are in the business bought the hoard and are slowly leaking it in the market. HA has been disposing the largest part of the hoard, followed by CNG, ROMA and Naumann. The germans and the swiss are occasionally auctioning a few pieces which means they are out of the business.
     
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  19. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    An Athens tet on the higher end of middle grade (fully struck and centered, but not lustrous and with some wear) sells for about the same price as a F-VF 1909-S VDB wheat penny, and we know there are almost a half million of those floating around.

    I do suspect that some investment firm may be seeding the hoard slowly into the market, but prices are high because if you asked a non-specialist to put together a "box of 20" of ancients, I'd bet that 90% would choose a classic style Athens tet. They are hefty, beautiful, and of immense importance to the ancient world.
     
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