I agree that eBay, and like sites, should do a lot more to prevent the sale of fake, copy, and/or counterfeit coins on their sites. Concern about possibly buying a fake coin makes me work extra hard to authenticate the rare coins that I may bid on. I'm currently bidding on/looking at several China "Fat Man" silver dollars. I just won one of them. I bid on it, even though the coin weighed only 23.7 grams( 26.7 is normal ) because the seller is well known to myself and other CT !! members. After communicating with this seller and asking questions, I received suitable answers such as Yes, he tested the coin with an X-ray machine and Yes, it is silver. Other sellers were not/are not as forthcoming. One seller, the one I linked 2nd above, insists that he "found" a bunch of Fat Man dollars in a group of "old coins that he found". Yeah, Right ! The one in the photo doesn't weigh right and he evaded answering my questions straight up, so I "investigated" him and his feedback and his buys and sells. Turned out he has been making a lot of buys from Chinese eBayers who just happen to deal in fake coins. Another seller I questioned about his Fat Man Dollar, not only provided the weight(which was correct for the coin) but also provided an NGC slip with number, which I looked up and verified. It seems that NGC would not grade it because of "residue" on the coin but did authenticate it. Another I'm not finished with yet. My point being : If eBay would do it's job, I wouldn't have to do all of that.
This clause is key. Importation is in violation of the HPA if it is the intent of the importer to introduce them into commerce, eg. spending/selling them.
This stood out to me as well. Importation for private collection itself is fine provided one does not attempt to spend or sell them. I've seen a lot of hot air espoused on this thread; I am glad that there's at least one sensible user who is not just going off of emotion believing whatever they want to believe with a "my way or the highway" mentality because they hate replicas.
The importer is selling them in the US. The buyer is not the importer, the seller is. People aren't leaving the country to use Ebay. The commerce is taking place here. The funds are in US Dollars. The advertising is in the US. Ebay is a US company. The money comes from US bank accounts via Paypal. I do not hate replicas, I do hate dishonest thieves stealing from good people. Even if it were legal to buy them from here, the amount of money going to China from people looking to privately collect counterfeits is nothing compared to the amount of money going to the crooks falsely stating the authenticity of rare coins and reselling them. Thousands (maybe tens or hundreds of thousands) of dollars every single day are being drained out of our hobby by these cheating criminals. Makes me wonder why someone would defend those kinds of people.
Wasn’t the seller based in Hong Kong? That makes all of your points moot. The seller is the exporter.
Personally, I don't know. I discussed several things, such as this, with him, and he doesn't know for sure either. He suggests that maybe it's because of wear, but I think that is too much loss of weight to be caused by wear. I asked about testing and he assured me it was tested by an X-ray machine and was silver. I don't resell anything I buy, so I'm not concerned with any future repercussions. He offers the standard eBay guarantee of "like it or return it". He lists and sells many, many items. He describes the item(s) as they are or appear to be. He provides many photos, even of the item on a scale showing the weight.I don't believe he's trying to deceive anyone. I have bought many coins and things from him in the past. I have yet to be disappointed or to feel like I've been cheated. After I receive it I will have it tested. My main and only concern for this particular item is : Is it silver?
Based on my research and measurements, a coin of that size losing 10% to wear would be down in the P01-FR02 range at best. Dimes and quarters lose weight faster proportionally (more surface area relative to volume), and even G examples of those typically haven't lost more than 8% or so. I think you're looking for the wrong assurances here. Even if an X-ray machine says it's silver, that doesn't guarantee authenticity -- a real example should sell for quite a lot more than the cost of its silver. But I know next to nothing about that type of coin, so I can't really help you authenticate it, either. All I can say is that the coin is scarce and highly counterfeited, and if you've got an example that's 10% underweight, that's a big strike against it right off the bat.
We are not talking about any one seller. Even if it were legal to sell counterfeits from Hong Kong, besides being immoral, it is still against Ebay policy. The real problem is when they are brought here and re-sold as genuine. like this one, it lasted less than an hour before selling for $400 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-S-VDB...m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true
I agree with your weight loss analysis. As I stated, that's too much loss. No offense, but I think you misunderstand about what I'm looking for, and which assurances I accept. I'm not necessarily looking for authentic coins every time I buy. I'm looking for authentic silver. I have several of these Fat Man coins. Some I know are genuine, some I'm not sure. I have several FIC 1 Piasters, again some are real, some maybe not. I simply haven't tested the ones I'm unsure of yet. There are quite a few coins that are counterfeited on a regular basis and used to deceive buyers into spending large sums for them. I never spend large sums. I have many of the commonly counterfeited coins but I've never paid much for any of them. I seldom pay more than $10 - $20 for anything. Even the most expensive of coins. Some of the counterfeit coins being sold are actual silver and the conman is counting on the extra premium that goes with the " rare and scarce " coin to cover his cost of the real silver in the coin. So if I get one of those non-authentic, but real silver coins, at a great price, am I hurting? Considering I'm not a seller, and if I do sell at some point, I will be totally honest about it , just as this seller has been with me. Anyway, when I get the coin I will test it locally and find out the facts, and return it if I want to.
