Phraataces Shore 317 (this coin)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Sulla80, Mar 7, 2019.

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  1. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    This coin arrived in my mailbox this week:
    Phraataces Drachm src.jpg
    I have been looking for a while for a coin of Phraataces, king of Parthia 2 BC - AD 4, son of Phraates IV and Musa who was given to Phraates IV as a gift by Marc Anthony - the rest of the story is worth looking up... Finding this coin misattributed as Phraates IV was already a nice surprise.

    This coin completes a mini-collection of Parthian obverses:

    - Sellwood 51 Phraates IV (No symbols on obverse)
    - Sellwood 52 Phraates IV (Eagle)
    - Sellwood 53 Phraates IV (Eagle & star)
    - Sellwood 54 Phraates IV (Eagle, star and crescent)

    Given the coins of Phraates IV with Nike are very rare, I was happy to include a Nike with this coin, Phraataces Sellwood 56 (Nike, star, and crescent)

    What I didn't expect was the writing on the coin flip linking to CNG 36 Lot 317 - which when I looked it up is: "CNG 36 December 5-6, 1995, Fred B. Shore Collection of Parthian Lot#317". The CNG 36 catalog reads "Shore 317 (this coin)" – and the weight cited is a match for the coin above at 3.43g. The CNG listing:
    Phraataces Shore 317 S.56.6.JPG
    If anyone has a copy of Shore's "Parthian Coins & History: Ten Dragons Against Rome" I'd be interested to see what it says about this coin.

    Share your Parthian, Phraataces or Phraates IV coins, or anything else relevant.

    Parthia Phraates IV Set.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  3. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Great catch @Sulla80 I love finding lost provenance.
     
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  4. Bob L.

    Bob L. Well-Known Member

    Congrats on the Shore plate coin, Sulla80. This is from Ten Dragons:
    shore317.jpg
     
  5. dadams

    dadams Well-Known Member

    Nice collection of Parthian obverses and big congrats on your latest - the Shore Plate Coin!! I like Parthians a lot but don't know much about them so I only have this one representative example:

    [​IMG]
    PARTHIA. Vologases VI, 208-228 AD. AR Drachm (3.41 gm).
    Bust wearing tiara / Arsakes enthroned holding bow, monogram 88.
    Shore.458. Sellwood.88.19
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  6. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Awesome pickup, and love the others below that in your collection. Congrats.
     
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  7. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Wow, what a great find, with an even greater surprise bonus! Congrats! :)

    Here's my Sellwood 52 (Ecbatana mint):
    Screen Shot 2019-03-07 at 9.32.52 PM.jpg
     
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  8. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    Here's a Drachm of Phraates IV. 38 BC. I already posted that coin some time ago, just for ID. Now it's the occasion to participate in the thread. Phraates 4 O      Drachm.jpg Phraats IV R    silv 38 BC.jpg
     
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  9. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Super catch! The coin is delightful and its story-- plus the provenance story-- really add to its appeal!
     
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  10. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Bob L.! Very much appreciated, and fun to confirm that the plate coin matches!

    A nice coin - I like the obverse on your Vologases VI - nice tiara with earflaps.

    S.A. - thanks for sharing your 52 with a good looking portrait on the obverse.

    Aaaak! I guess I am not done with the micro-collection - another obverse that I didn't know I needed! (eagle, 2 star, crescent). I'd be interested to know anything else you know about your coin - and don't hesitate to PM me if you're bored with it. :)
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The sale listing copied the Shore text except they deleted the reference to monogram 30 since readers of the catalog would not have access to the page showing 175 monograms on Parthian coins.

    I made a mistake when I bought my copy of Shore when it came out. I bought one. I should have bought a box.
    https://www.amazon.com/Parthian-Coi...dragons&qid=1552045787&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spell

    I saw Fred Shore at a show a couple years ago and asked if he still had stock of the book. He might have been better of if he saved a few. There have been some changes in the 'current' attributions since his book came out but the book is still worth having. The Amazon price is more than I would suggest paying. Another older book worth getting is Sellwood, The Coinage of Parthia which is distinctive by being reproduced from the author's calligraphy.
    [​IMG]

    Trivia: You know the guy who took the excellent photos in the Shore book. I did not but someone here on CT did. Who?

    I have shown mine on CT before so nothing new here:
    Phraates IV
    op0160b00801lg.jpg

    Ecbatana mint op0165fd3324.jpg
    Phraatakes
    op0170bb0664.jpg
     
  12. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the info, the amazing crowd on CT leaves me awestruck, eager to absorb more and curious to hear the answer...

    edit: funny what you can find on the internet:
    Capture.JPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  13. Lorenzo F

    Lorenzo F New Member

    Nice win sulla specially being from shore . I have a phraateces tetradrachm from simonetta col and one orodes II tetradrachm also from simonetta col and 2 orodes II drachms from sellwood col

    OrodesII_simonetta.jpg PhraatesIVtet.jpg orodesII_2.jpg OrodesII.jpg 5Ptkzg7E6pSxBFd8ji3G9iNDQ4sB2n.jpg phraatesV_simonetta.jpg
     
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  14. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

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  15. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Although I would very much like it, I don't have any Phraataces coins. But I have a Phraates IV drachm and a bronze - although he was an odious character:

    5145 Phraates drachm ct.jpg
    Phraates IV (38-2). AR drachm. Obv. Sleepy-eyed bust to the left with Parthian tiara, left crescent moon and star, right a large eagle with wreath in its beak. Rev. Archer on a stool, before him ‘NI’ (don’t think of those Knights!). Lettering unreadable. Mint Mitradatkert. 19.4 mm, 3.84 gr. Sellwood 54.10 (more or less).

    Praates iv ct.jpg

    Phraates IV. AE. Obv. Bust left. Rev. Deer? right. Text unreadable. 13 mm, 2.21 gr.
     
  16. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    He was an odious character, the line from Gardner: "Phraates IV began his reign...by murdering all his brothers, as a necessary precaution before murdering other people".

    I've found the bronzes hard to find, and even harder to attribute - here's one that might be Phraates IV - but not at all sure - similar size and weight to yours.
    Phraates IV AE.jpg
    Size: 2.44g 14mm
    Obv: Phraates IV? Rev: Deer?
    Dichalkous?
     
  17. Bob L.

    Bob L. Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Sellwood 51.53, Phraates IV dichalkous, stag reverse, Mithradatkart mint.
     
  18. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    I couldn't resist the other coin with the same origin (CNG 36 1995) Sellwood 312 Phraataces.jpg
    Phraatakes 2BC-4AD AR Tetradrachm 11.38g
    Obv: Bare-headed bust left without royal wart, with medium pointed beard, wearing diadem, earring visible
    Rev: King seated right on throne, Tyche standing before him, giving him diadem and holding cornucopia, standard legend, below Tyche's arm IT, above Tyche's arm, IT, ΓOPM(?)
    Ref: Shore 312 (this coin)
    CNG Auction Catalog CNG 36 lot 312.JPG

    Shore, Ten Dragons Against Rome Sellwood 312.jpg
     
  19. Bob L.

    Bob L. Well-Known Member

    Another great pickup, Sulla80. And it appears you must have picked up Shore's Ten Dragons too. Well done.

    By coincidence the Shore 273 plate coin - a Phraates IV tet from his collection - was just listed in the new VAuctions as lot 146. The listing has it, erroneously, as Shore 268. I've written Parviz (it's a Pars Coins auction) to bring the mistake to his attention. Maybe you'll be enticed to go for your third Shore plate coin?
     
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  20. Sulla80

    Sulla80 Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Bob L. & yes, I did find a nice used Ten Dragons. On 273, that could be a slippery slope as there are more than a few coins in the book...
     
  21. DBDc80

    DBDc80 Numismatist

    Here are some of mine...in a little group display showing the changes in the archer over the years.... 20190113_010241.jpg 20190113_010047.jpg
     
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