CAC Question

I like grape and cherry the best.

 

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The two coins are both in newer holders. (The one is an anniversary holder not OGH so it was graded in 2016) and the coin was regraded within a narrow time frame. There were no new policy changes during that time. I was actively submitting then. If anything, PCGS grading has tightened and the color bumps have become smaller and not the other way around. Standards started to tighten noticeably around 2017 IMO. I'm not the only one to have noticed and opined on the subject - many large dealers who were also submitting started complaining too.

 

I'm aware when the coins were graded, and you don't have any insider information as to the policy changes or lack thereof by PCGS. People are always complaining that the TPGs are tightening standards and it is usually nothing more than sour grapes about a submission or two.

Btw, what exactly were you submitting?

 

I never claimed insider information; I'm not an insider, and if I had inside information I wouldn't be giving it away for free on coin forums. You stated that there was a shift in grading at the time in the way toned coins were graded. If there was a dramatic shift like that (i.e. where a MS65+ becomes a MS67+ virtually over night), it would have been obvious to everyone and especially submitters at the time.

My submissions were varied and consisted of crossover, raw, and regrade submissions mostly of gem type, pre-1950 cameo coinage, and toned coins (usually Morgans but with a smattering of Buffalo Nickels, Mercury Dimes, Peace Dollars, etc.).

 

My claim was a hypothesis to explain why we have started to see graded rainbow toned coins getting expensive grade bumps upon resubmission from PCGS. It wouldn't apply to the run of the mill toned coins, rather it would be confined to coins with monster toning that drive big enough premiums to warrant a value grade.

 

You wonder if higher demand -- from toning to just higher numbers of deep-pocketed bidders -- leads to higher prices for an illiquid commodity with fixed supply ?

In other words.....let's say an MS-66 Saint sells the last few years for $5,000. Then, let's say that lots of new buyers want that particular coin/year/mint and very gradually (or via a spike) the price for the MS-66 soon trades at $12,000 where MS-67's were priced.

This leads to legit MS-66's suddenly getting graded as MS-67's and grade inflation across the spectrum.

 

This makes sense to me, and I am not into toned coins.

 

Franklin's are a bit more obscure, what are your thoughts on the posts and comments and links (including mine) about Franklin's getting upgraded 2 grades (with FBL designations) and the angst that causes as the price can skyrocket 20-50 fold ?

 

Thanks

 

I disagree. I just won a CAC'ed quarter eagle gold coin with a PCGS MS64 grade.
It has razor cuts across the obverse. Can't believe it got past CAC but it did. I'm going to send it to CAC to see if they will take it off the market.

 

My collection specialty is low mintage Gem grade Double Eagles, preferably PQ or/+ CAC approved. I watch the majority of internet offerings, late at night, early morning. When seeing a newly offered Gem PQ date I usually purchase in a certain price range. I sent the company an e-mail purchase statement, asking for an invoice. When an invoice wasn't received by noon, I wrote the owner who approves all sales, asking if he had been notified of my order. He stated not being informed, investigated and said the coin was sold, a statement occasionally used when a coin was offered at an improper price. He said he had another, for ~$1500 less, and he'd send an image. I received an image of a PQ MS65 Double Eagle, same date/TPG as my choice, except with "bag rub" on rim/devices, and "bag marks" in the fields and devices.

He was indignant that I wouldn't accept a "top tier" TPG PQ coin at face grading. I'm sorry but I've CACed MS63 non-PQ coins with greater luster, less "dings".

There is appreciable "Top Tier" TPG grading disparity today!

JMHO

 

I think it’s almost always a bad thing when a coin upgrades more than 1 grade, regardless of series. It hurts the credibility of the entire grading system.

As for Franklins, I’m helping my brother build a set and PCGS’s application of the FBL designation borders on the criminal.

 

Specifically, what ?

Have they changed the designation or are you talking about ad hoc grade inflation like the threads I cited ?

 

What happens is what the collectors “grade-flation.” All of the standards get watered down from the Mint State to the circulated grades over time. Sometimes the grading companies tighten up their standards, but it doesn’t last. The over graded coins stay in numismatic circulation, but the conservatively graded pieces are cracked out and re-submitted.

There was a time when I liked most of the AU-50 graded coins. Now I really don’t care for most them because they are really only EF and sometimes have eye appeal issues. For the Classic Head gold coins, most AU-50 pieces don’t work for me and all of the EF graded coins are a disappointment. When I was young collector in the 1960s and ‘70s, the EF grade coins from the honest, top drawer dealers were always nice pieces. Of course the bad dealers also did their thing, which why third party grading came to be.

Here is an example of what has happened over the past few years. This is an 1834, Crosslet 4, Classic Head $5 gold piece. It is listed in “The Red Book.” This is a very scarce coin with perhaps 125 surviving examples in all grades. These coins are rare in AU and better, and it is possible to trace some them on the auction house sites.

At one time this coin was in an AU-58 holder. Today it is in an MS-61 holder and is clearly over graded. I own it because the collector in me really wanted an example that would not be in a way lower grade than the rest of my set. I way over paid for it, but it goes well with my collection.

I checked with some of the advanced collectors and learned that the Mint State population numbers on the PCGS site are overstated because the same coins have been submitted for grading multiple times. Therefore, it’s even harder to get this coin is high grade than the population reports suggest.

1834 Crosslet 4 Classic Head $5 gold



Here are close-up of both of the 1834 date varieties:

The Crosslet 4



The Plain 4

 

Cherry the older blue label coins. Many of the 65 FBLs are turning up in 66 FBL and 67 FBL holders.

 

コインは女性が人格ではない

 

Sick burn