Hi all, I'm continuing my journey into coin grading and have another question... On mint state toned coins, how is the "Luster" component of the grade assessed? It seems that often luster can be seen through the toning, but is certainly not as "frosty" as it would be on a white coin. Is there some way to tell how "strong" the luster is anyway on coins like this? As always, any advice is appreciated. :thumb:
carthweeling the coin under the light will allow you to ascertain a coin's luster, toned or not. comparitive cartwheeling several examples (preferably hundreds or thousands) will give you a feel for a particular issue's luster and a better feel for where each coin sits in that continum. hope this helps....mike
This is a great question. Just like brilliant coins, toned coins can have varying degrees of luster. Sometimes the actual toning mutes the luster. Either way, the amount of luster will have a dramatic effect on the appearance of the color and the overall eye appeal of the coin. You will find some coins that have blasting luster in combination with incredible toning. These are the coins that tend to get Market Graded by the TPG's and are also prime candidates for the NGC star designation. Likewise, you can find very colorfully toned coins with muted luster. The colors are there, but they appear very flat and sometimes unattractive without the luster. Most coins will fall somewhere in the middle with moderate luster shining through underneath the toning. The best way to understand this is by looking at some examples visually. The Morgan Dollar series is a good place to start simply because it has an abundance of toned coins with all kinds of luster differences. Please note that some issues of Morgans come with frosty luster and others have prooflike or semi-prooflike surfaces. These two types of luster will have dramatically different appearances in hand that can't really be appreciated in photos, although I will try. Let us first look at some frosty Morgans starting with those with muted luster. Muted Luster Notice how the colors on the first coin lack the pop and flash that normally accompanies an emerald green Morgan. The second coin has better luster than the first but only because the toning is not as advanced. Even though this coin is graded an MS66, the colors appear a little flat due to muted luster. Compare these two coins with the next two that have better (moderate) luster. Moderate Luster There is no doubt that the increased luster definitely improves the appearance of the color on the coins. Notice how the colors are more vibrant and seem to glow although you can't really see the cartwheel effect in the photos. Now compare these two with the blazing examples below. Highly Lustrous The first coin is toned almost entirely in green and gold but you can actually see the cartwheel effect in the photo of this superb gem Morgan Dollar. The second coin has luster that just makes the colors appear incredible. This is one of the most vibrantly colored Morgans I have ever seen and the appearance is due in no small part to the lustrous surface of the reverse. Now let us look at two Morgans with semi-prooflike surfaces. Semi-Prooflike Luster This will be your quiz. I hope you can tell me which coin has better luster from the photos. When collecting toned coins, I would say that luster is equally as important as color. It is the combination of luster and toning that increase the eye appeal of the coin and drive the huge premiums that are seen often with respect to rainbow toned coins. Without the luster, the coin will appear flat and it will not deserve much of a premium. Having said that, it is extremely important that you search for photos that can give you an idea of the luster on the coin. Many of the sellers on E-Bay enhance their photos to give the illusion of luster and vibrancy of colors that does not actually exist. My advice is to seek out rainbow toned coins with excellent photos from reputable dealers with a generous return policy. And remember to bring a full wallet.
The 1883-O with the Mounstrous toned Reverse , to me has the best toning only one other is even close the 1886-P , IMO . rzage
Thats cuz you have not seen the reverse of the 1881-S MS66. Check this out, it will blow your mind. WOW!
the type of luster varies per coin and series. On peace dollars and walkers I look for a mint bloom, while morgan have the mirrors and cameos. Luster makes or brakes a mint state coin. Go look at a lot of coins, that will help, even photos.
a little of subject arent most 1881 S prooflike on the reverse but not so in obverse? I lke the one that 14369-026 the one with the yellow highlighter toning that is extremely unique. How much for that one ? LOL
I wouldn't say most, but many are PL on both sides. the '79-S thru '81-S dollars are all known for being very well struck and are often found in very good condition. For that reason grading allowances have to be made, but the opposite direction. In other words, while one Morgan of another date and mint might grade 65, an '81-S in the same condition would only grade 64.
Personally that 81-S does not belong with the rest of the coins. As far as I can see that is a finger print that broke the luster on that coin. I also agree with Mike. Still learning myself.
Now I told you guys that my photos are not great, here is my proof. I try to use my own photos whenever possible. It forces me to improve my photography skills and gives me a sense of achievement. But in this case, you are about to see how bad my photos are and why you can't always trust what you see. Take a look at the photos from the seller (Anaconda). I don't think that is a fingerprint and I promise you that it is not at all distracting, this coin is absolutely beautiful, one of my personal favorites among my collection. Every time I see it I think of Notre Dame (Green Uniforms) vs. Florida. As I recall, someone did not like Anaconda's photos and thought they were juiced. I can tell you since I own the coin, that Brandon's photos (at least in this case) are dead perfect. This is exactly what the coin looks like.
Will have to wait until I get home - for some reason work blocks photobucket.com. The rest looked okay to me. But, like you, I still need to work on my pictures. Can't wait to get home and view it.
Okay - I still do not like the splotchy appearance. It may well be graded correctly, but I just can not see a 66 for that coin. JUST my personal opinion - which as lehigh pointed out the coin in hand could change my opinion. And I doubt it would get sent to me just to change my opinion - but then again....????
Lehigh I love a well toned coin , but on the '81 in the pictures it looks like something broke the toning , what would make it look that way if it wasn't a rub ? All the others are beautiful . rzage
I agree Lehigh, that is not the result of a fingerprint. But something has at one point in time scratched some of the toning off that coin. It's quite common with toned coins. I have always attributed a great deal of it to coins being slid into and out of flips.
Greetings, I amin need of help. I am trying to determine what I can about this coin (1884-S) heavily toned coin. It looks like it is pretty high grade and was found by me in an old laundry coin op business in rural West Virginia found in a store being demolished and there was a large safe with many many rare coins gold and silver alike. Many of them are heavily toned and were stored in a combination of books, holders, and bags. The stash would have been in humid and hot and chemically sulfur infused areas being a laundromat and caused toning heavily On many. I am curious what you all think and if should get graded or what?. I am a new lover of hunting coins that i do not sell, but just love collecting and holding onto. The grade on this coin looks like an MS 66$!?$!?$ which has got to be super scarce for this date and valuable. What value do you think it may have if it is okay to ask . Thanks much for any info you may be willing to share. I appreciate your expertise. Thanks much, Mega Mike
Ok, first things first, that coin will never grade MS66 with those reed marks on the chin. I get that you are excited about your find but you need to be realistic when grading your coins. Ownership usually adds a point, sometimes several. Now onto the toning. Both the color scheme and toning pattern on this coin are highly questionable and would most certainly relegate it to a problem coin if graded. Additionally, the toning is highly unattractive and distracting. The only real salvation for this coin would be to dip it and see if the result could yield an MS63-64 grade. Please remember that it doesn’t matter if the coin was actually artificially toned or if the toning is the result of improper storage as is the case here, the TPGs won’t have knowledge of previous storage conditions. All they will see is the toning which screams Questionable color. One last thing, this thread is over a decade old. Many times you will find that the people you are asking for help are no longer active members of the forum from a thread this old. You kinda got lucky that I’m still around. It might be better in the future to just start a new thread for questions like this. Paul
Please start a thread @Mike caliri and post pictures of all the coins found in the safe, I think that may draw a little interest if legitimate.
