if you bought a jefferson smooth edge read this

wait I was told by the actual seller that he had in his possesion 300 , so i called to confirm with the person he bought them from which imho was a call made to someone who i thought of as someone who had offered his advice in the past and seemed to be not all business with me ( he told me he had only 300 and sold all and he had no further interest in them and i was crazy not to buy now before their all gone and until that time I had no reason to doubt him ) , why I am being called greedy because i bought a coin is beyond me .. and all i was doing was trying to let other potential buyers of this jefferson smooth edge know what happened to me , in hopes of preventing it from happening to them

 

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I don't believe this is Greed AT ALL. BUT, now we all know who to stay clear of....

 

It is and thank you for posting it. :thumb:

 

INMHO, the price you paid may never live up to itself in the long run. I hope it does. And wow! If three Gs isn't an issue; I am humbled by your presence here. Well maybe just envious a bit. Keep us posted with this. Its interesting.

 

if three grand was a problem then i wouldnt be buying a coin with it ..... i paid my dues and went to school got an education and i make a very nice living ...whats wrong with that ..

 

no one said anything about that being wrong...
In fact, I think they complimented you.. If your looking for a fight, your in the wrong place.

 

no i believe i was called greedy and ignorant for paying 3 grand ..and the last thing in the world i was looking for was a fight , if I came across as that I am sorry

 

My intention wasnt to rile you. I never got past the 2nd grade. What is this? How can I type, being so dumb and all? i must be possessed!!!! Where's Father Karas when you need him?

 

If there are more why haven't they surfaced? These errors always popped up together. If someone else had them besides us I'm sure you'd see them all over ebay. Go search. Good luck finding anything. I know a guy that's already sold a 66 Jefferson for $4,900. He bought it for $3950. The market is telling DUI40 he got a good deal. How is anybody getting ripped off?


I think DUI40 will be very glad to have that coin in ten years time. I could be wrong. But so could anyone that disagrees with me.

 

It is not unsurprising, presumably as a seller of these coins who stands to gain from their sale, that you hold that opinion.

To answer your question directly on why more haven't surfaced... One reason that pops into my mind is the original submitter is holding on to more of them. Another could be they are in a collector's bag yet to be opened. A third might be that they are still in the vaults. As I'm sure you understand, yet seem to gloss right over, these coins were minted in 2007, so it's not like people have been searching for decades and decades. Lastly, here's an auction for one of these coins on eBay, which tends to dispute your assertion that they "always popped up together":

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Thomas-Jeffer...yZ149688QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also, just because "you know a guy" doesn't mean the market is telling DUI40 anything. Even more to the point -- how much would YOU buy back the coin for, and how many have YOU purchased at this level for your own collection/investment? To me, and I suspect most people, your response to those two questions means far more than "know[ing] a guy" (who incidentally sold a 66 not a 65 as DUI4U bought).

Respectfully but suspiciously submitted...Mike

p.s. I never said anyone was "getting ripped off", but I do find it interesting that you brought that up.

 

I do and in terms of numismatic rarity 800 examples is a huge number, and hardly rare.

Compare it to other modern "rarities" of the presidential dollars, and the number looks low, but to compare this error with the 1955 doubled die or other numismatic errors is disingenuous at best, and outright deceptive at worst.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the premium for other R.3 errors, much less ones that are all in mint state, and report back what you find.

But then again, that doesn't make for such a great sales pitch, does it?

 

Mike you might be right and the market will be flooded with them. But if you're wrong you missed a great error coin. So you can be a pessimist and assume their will be more. The reason I think it's imporant to say no others have surfaced is because the Adams and Washinton errors were found in a matter of weeks or months. Why would you hold on to them? People were on point when the adams came out. They were surely looking for Jefferson as well.

There is risk in reward in coin collecting. You don't want to take risks that's ok. But don't tell people they're stupid or greedy because you disagree with their choice. If 800 people buy a coin at $3950 I'd say that's a price the market accepts. Maybe you don't, maybe that's too much money for you.
Once we are out of the coins and find a futher demand for the coin we probably will buy some to get to our customers. But right now as we have them there would be no sense in buying them for more money than we currently own them. Is coin collecting supposed to be a non-profit venture? I have kids to feed. I don't have the money personally to buy this coin. But some people do. If I could buy at least one I would.

And you can take your respectfully but suspiciously submitted comment and cram it. Don't say respectfully submitted and than cast aspersions on my character. Learn some manners.

 

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never called anyone stupid or greedy. I also never casted "aspersions" at anyone's character, unless you find the truth (as I see it) damaging. I did, however, call into question your sales technique, and I stand by each and every word I wrote. If you find my words or opinions slanderous/libelous, please feel free to sue me, but please be advised for something to be slanderous/libelous it must be untrue.

To answer your question directly as to why someone would "hold on to them" -- I've provided several examples of why these coins could be more common than you are suggesting, and only one of them includes an overt action of holding on to coins purposefully. I'm sorry if you don't like my answers, I'm sorry if you think that's being pessimistic, I'm sorry if that makes these coins not such a great investment, but having seen more than a few of these types of deals over the years, I would call it realistic not pessimistic. But then again that's only my opinion, and I am entitled to it just as you are to yours.

Setting opinion aside for a moment, it is interesting to note that the first time you advertised the coins (ref: http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=30561 ), there were only 200, yet by your own admission you "immediately bought 500" (somehow you left that little tidbit out of your November advertisement), and now, low and behold, there are 800. Also, when you first advertised these coins they "won't last long", yet now three months later they are still very much available. Very interesting....

That said, thank you for answering my question. I see you've purchased none of these coins that you think are a great investment, and you won't purchase back the coins you sell (and who said anything about puchasing them for more money than you sold them -- I think DUI4U would be more than happy to get his money back). That, in and of itself, is all the answer I needed, but I'll let others decide for themselves.

Listen, I'm all for profit and I can understand the pressures of feeding your family, but when one hypes up coins with half-truths and favorable comparisons is when I start to take issue -- and I have no skin in this game other than looking out for other collector's best interests as my posting history here and elsewhere has proven. Can you say the same?

With that, I'm done with this thread. My point has been made -- the half-truths, changing stories, and misrepresentations are here for all to read and decide for themselves -- but please feel free to have the last word...Mike

 

Yeah because things are always apples to apples.
1.This is the first coin series ever in US history without a year date.

2. First coin series that was supposed to have edge lettering that didn't .
3. First dollar coin since 1804 draped bust dollar with edge lettering.
4. The US had not struck a coin with edge lettering for 99 years.
5. They also have put an end to edge lettering. So the edge lettering coins become at the most a two year type coin. That was ended because of this error.

I could go on and on.

There were over 203,610,000 Jeffersons minted and only 800 found errors. You do the math. That's rare.

In other words you're missing the boat. I think you're going to be kicking yourself for not getting one. Time will tell.

 

Figures and facts

I have been reading this thread with some interest. Actually posted on it way back when and then again when Mike started digging into it. Fact is we could all very well be in our graves before we really know. Hope we're all around for quite some time.

Now Rareandunique you are tossing out some impressive "stats" and comparisons (such as edge lettering on a dollar coin, 2 year series etc.)

If yuo are THAT confident then I would suggest you DO find a way to purchase one. Yes, I know kids to feed and believe me I can understand the budgeting issue as well as anyone.
Take out a loan, put one on layaway, dump some of your other coins if you're that confident. I would but I'm not that confident because there is one thing you have failed to touch upon. So you don't get the wrong idea I am in NO WAY saying you meant to exclude this.

The point is long term collectibility. So let's say there are only 800 and that number remains the same. I'll also state I am not a fan of "quarter sized" dollar coins to make it clear.
However, we are talking about an error on a rim. Slab this by a reputable service and can one even SEE the error? Not really and what you then have is a normal looking coin but the SLAB says it's an error.

Now let's slab a 1955 Double Die. Can you see the error easily with the naked eye? Oh, you bet you can. If you get a Sacagawea/Washington mule is the error evident? A resounding yes!



These are PROVEN sought after coins. Dollar coins are hot now but I think it would be a safe assumption to make that the MAJORITY of people collecting them are more like state quarter collectors. They just want one of each. I'm not knocking this as it does get a lot of people into the hobby but the number of people that are seeking every error in the series is probably more commensurate with the number of errors available.
Will this change in 20, 40 50 years? Possibly but I sincerely doubt to the magnitue of a 55DD.

Let's go back further to a non error but variety. I'm a 2 Cent junkie. The 1864 small motto has an unknown mintage but reliable sources put the estimate as low as 3,000. Now we're talking a 146 year old piece here with very low numbers. They don't get $3,000 except in higher Mint State grades. Conversely the 1872 with a known mintage of 65,000 commands higher prices because it is the KEY business strike.
Point here is the collector base is not so great that many are going to pursue the small motto variety but they want the 1872.

One step further and a perfect example. I collect U.S. Currency as well. I have a rather extensive collection of Fort Worth 295 errors. This means very little to most including other currency collectors. It is not a dramatic error but an error nonetheless.
There are roughly 330 combinations known and many which fall into the R10 category.
One such note is the L-X block, run 3 with a 347 face plate. THREE are known to exist out of 6.4 million notes printed. I own TWO of those.
Are people beating my door down for these? I only wish as I could use the money but alas the answer is no. So here I sit on TWO very rare notes that garner very little attention.

As you had stated rareandunique only time will tell. For those that have dropped the "big bucks" I sincerely hope it turns out well. I'm not holding my breath though.

clembo

I have been informed that edge lettering IS or IS NOT visible in new holders so I clarify. However, my point(s) remain the same.

 

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Edge lettering will continue on Presidential dollars after 2008. The motto - In God We Trust - which has been on the edge will be moved to either the obverse or reverse of the coins but the date, mintmark and E PLURIBUS UNUM will remain on the edge.