Good evening, I'm new here, I left an introduction over in the new user area. I wanted to ask about large cents, and cleaning. I'm not a rookie collector who cleans coins. But I saw an interesting video, that I would like some input on. I borrowed a tape from the AnA library, regarding large cents in general. It was more of an introduction than anything. It was done circa 1990, by none other then Denis Loring. In his talk, he quite casually, and comfortably said old copper could be cleaned with Acetone. He added that if the Acetone didn't clean the coin enough, one could clean it deeper with Ivory soap and a toothbrush. I've been collecting only a few years. But this goes against everything I have ever heard about cleaning coins. Namely, do not ever clean coins. On the other hand, it seems like if Denis Loring says it's okay, why would I doubt him? Still, I'm not cleaning any coin until I hear a lot more. Also, he said coins should be wiped with (the product) "care." Is that the same product that is sold under the name "Coin Care?" He also said to store them in cotton sacks and take them out and brush them twice a year with a goat hair brush. Looking for comments from long time copper collectors on these points. Thanks in advance! Steve
Steve. Do not clean copper coins period. Try this. take a 1981 circulated cent, do one of the above, look at it with a loupe and notice the scratches. Look at it without a loupe and notice how the color is WAY off. I have been collecting for 40 years and can tell you. Clean copper and its detectable, in most cases very VERY easily. DONT DO IT.
I agree partly. If you have a copper coin that has a lot of dirt embedded in it, you can use Ivory liquid and your fingers, then rince in warm water. I have been collecting since 1947. Now I know this is going to start a fight here..Let the fights begin.
Ed, Wouldn't that still show on the high points of coin? I don't know about you but my stubby little fingers would not fit between the devices. Not arguing but I still think it would show on the coin. I say don't touch them.
Intersting. Like I said, I wasn't intending to clean my copper anyway. I was just amazed that Denis Loring (considered a copper GOD by many) would say that. That was 1990, which is close to 20 years ago. I wasn't collecting then. Maybe attitudes have changed since then. What about the business of keeping them in individual cotton sacks, so they can breath? I prefer mine in an album, so I don't have to handle them if I want to look at them. And I love to look at them, that's why I buy them!
Steve - You can find countless articles from years ago by many respected authors that tell you all sorts of things. That doesn't mean that what they say is right - it just means it was the commonly accepted practice at the time. The same is true in any field, not just numismatics. For instance, not so very long ago it was the commonly accepted practice that collectors would clean their coins - routinely. It wa salso quite common for collectors to coat their coins with lacquer, fingernail polish or some other substance. Both of these practices were done in an effort to remove and/or protect the coins from toning. For as long as people have collected coins they have always strived to protect their collections, always trying to make them "look" better, so that when they shared their collection with another collector that other collector would be "impressed" by the appearance of their collection. Things are no different today. What is different today is the knoweldge we have gained. In todays world we know how to properly store our coins. We have learned that by protecting the coins from temperature changes, humidity and the very air that surrounds us that we can maintain the appearance of the coins so that they always stay beautiful. Advances in technology have shown us how to do this without using the old methods. And, advances in knowledge have also shown us what the long term effects of using various commercial products like coin cleaners, restorers or conditioners can do to coins. The same for the old household methods like using soap & water, vinegar, baking soda - the list is endless. Bottom line is this - just like everything else in life from medicine to space science to numismatics - we have learned from our experience. We have learned not to make the mistakes of the past.
Actually what Denis said in the tape is still considered acceptable practice in the early copper field. The product "Care" that he mentions is no longer available. It has been replaced by Blue Ribbon. Blue ribbon is not considered to be as good as the original Care, and bottles of Care can now sell for $80 or more when one turns up on the market. Blue Ribbon was also discontinued for awhile and they got up to $18 a bottle, but it was reintroduced a few years ago.
So Conder - when you say the early copper field I can only assume that you mean among members of the EAC. Is this correct ? Are you also saying that the EAC promotes the use of soap & water with a toothbrush to clean your coins ? Sorry Conder, but I truly find it hard to believe that people like Ron Guth, Rick Snow, Julian Leidman and Tom Reynolds would promote such practices.
I joined the EAC last week. I think those early large cents and half cents are their own little corner of numismatics. It's time for me to listen to the experts in a specialized field. It's gonna cost some money for books... I just know it...
But think what it will save you in the long run and what it will make you by helping you to cherrypick.
Heck yeah ! Yep, in a single week I joined the Early American Coppers club, and the Huzak Large Cent collection pulled down $10 million at auction... One event sent shock waves through the industry... the other - not so much.
Yes i meant EAC. As to the use of Ivory soap and water I would eed to know the context in which it was used. I can't believ he was refering to just any coin, but there are times when you have some low grade grungy coins it might be posible. I don't know if he actually suggested using a toothbrush, but we do often use a #4 jewelers brush for applyinga tiin layer of Care or Blue Ribbon, or for absorbing any excess if too muh has been applied. We also use acetone, xylol, toothpicks an rose thorns.
Hi, I'm the OP, the one who was talking about that tape. Denis was talking about large cents that were caked up with grime. He made no comments about low or high value coins. He gave an example of a dirty Large cent that had never been cleaned. It graded (If I recall correctly) F12. It was cleaned with acetone and viola, it became AU. (Don't shoot me, I'm just saying what Denis Loring said.) He then went on to say if you have a coin that has stubborn dirt that won't come off, THEN use Ivory soap and a toothbrush. At that point, an audience member asked about cleaing inside the curls, date, and other tight spots. Denis said to use a thorn. The guy in the audience said "A WHAT??" Denis said "a thorn." I borrowed it from the ANA library. If anyone wants to see it themselves, I'll pop it in and get the exact title, so you can request it from the ANA.
I realize you are only quoting what you saw, but now I'm more lost than ever in understanding the credibility of this tape you refer to. Cleaning removes dirt, not wear. Nothing can remove wear.
The F-12 was probably an EAC grade and had the coin had been downgraded because it was believed the surfaces were corroded under the grime. Removal of the crud revealed that there was no surface damage the grade deductions were eliminated. (Although I would find a jump from F-12 to AU-50 a bit extreme. A high VF to AU I could believe.)
