Who says provincial die engravers weren't talented?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Roman Collector, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The majority of the Provincial coins have a reverse legend that names the issuing city/province. The big exception is Alexandria which assumed you knew their coins (and they were not good for circulation elsewhere).
     
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  3. Suarez

    Suarez Well-Known Member

    This is apparently the second highest price paid for a provincial (not sure if that's true)
    690930_.png
     
  4. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    In general could you use provincials in other areas than their production province?
     
  5. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    To the lovely portraits of Julia Domna posted by @dougsmit and @arizonarobin above, I would add this coin from Thessalonica:
    Screen Shot 2019-02-14 at 11.30.34 PM.jpg
     
  6. Jochen1

    Jochen1 Well-Known Member

    With original patina:

    Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Septimius Severus, AD 193-211
    AE 28, 12.83g, 27.58mm, 225°
    struck under governor Ovinius Tertullus
    obv. AV.K.Λ.C. - CEVHPOC Π
    laureate head r.
    rev. VΠA OOVIN TEPTVΛΛOV NIKOΠOΛIT ΠPOC I
    Youthful unbearded Herakles, nude, stg. facing, head r., resting with r. hand
    on his club, holding in l. hand his bow and lion-skin over l. arm
    ref. a) not in AMNG:
    obv. AMNG I/1, 1275
    rev. AMNG I/1, 1276 var. (has NIKOΠOΛI)
    b) not in Varbanov
    c) Hristova/Hoeft/Jekov (2018) No. 8.14.14.2 (plate coin)
    rare, EF+, superb green patina
    nikopolis_sept_severus_HrHJ(2018)8.14.14.2.jpg
     
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  7. Jochen1

    Jochen1 Well-Known Member

    A wonderful provincial:

    Moesia inferior, Nikopolis ad Istrum, Macrinus, AD 217-218
    AE 27, 14.01g, 27.34mm, 45°
    struck under governor Marcus Claudius Agrippa
    obv. AV K OΠΠEΛ CE - VH MAKPINOC
    laureate head r.
    rev. VΠ AΓPIΠΠA NIKOΠOΛITΩN ΠPOC / C ICTPΩ
    city-gate with three towers, all with three pinnacles, closed double-door
    ref. a) not in AMNG:
    cf. AMNG I/1, 1826 (for Diadumenian)
    b) Varbanov (engl.) 3383
    c) Hristova/Hoeft/Jekov (2018) No. 8.23.46.6 (plate coin)
    very rare, VF/EF, dark brown Patina
    nikopolis_macrinus_HrHJ(2018)8.23.46.6.jpg
     
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  8. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Antioch :

    [​IMG]


    Laodicaea :

    [​IMG]


    Nicopolis :

    [​IMG]


    Q
     
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  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Since more than one liked the Alexandria Domna, I'll show two more that are different and mention the one I don't have that I do want. From above, LB year 2 is the style from the period that the Alexandria mint also struck denarii.
    Alexandria, Julia Domna tetradrachm LB
    [​IMG]

    Year 4 LD has a portrait a lot less 'Alexandrian' but by this time the die engravers fould have seen more other portraits of her. Dikaiosyne reverse
    pa1250fd3425.jpg

    My favorite coin obtained in this millennium is year 20 LK September - December 211, the year Septimius died. LK could also be January to August 212 but the reverse here shows Caracalla and Geta shaking hands and would not have been likely continued after the mint got word that Geta was murdered. I believe this is the only coin type struck after Septimius died showing the boys together which is why I like the coin so much but the portrait is also interesting. There is an obverse die match using a year 18 reverse. (Double striking makes this ID less than 100% but I believe it is a match). There are other LK reverses using the Domna portrait style I lack that is very much like the Rome mint portraits following Septimius' death. I suspect that the order to change portraits came with the word of Geta's death.
    pa1300fd3426.jpg CNG sold a late portrait LK but I did not buy it.
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=349351

    If I were to stop buying generally and cheaply, I would specialize in Alexandria mint Domna and family. So few come to market each year that it might be possible. I note that the CNG coin posted above went for less than estimate so competition from the big dogs is not severe. I doubt that will change since few of them are really high grade. I just can't bring myself to only two or three coins a year.

    There are many other Provincial mints that are really wonderful. There are also quite a few that are so wildly terrible that you would believe they were barbarous. The border between civilization and not-so-civilization was a very fuzzy line. Maybe we need a thread honoring the least talented die engravers, too.
     
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  10. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Yes, the greatest benefit I've got from ancient coins is the dear friends with which I have been blessed over the years - people I would not have otherwise known without our shared interest.
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    As I understand the matter, professional moneychangers operated a lot like they do today. You could trade in your coins of Nicopolis for local coins of Antioch but there would be a charge based on the trouble the moneychanger would have getting his money out of them. That could mean that one coin of a certain size from a nearby town would bring 80% face value while another from far away would be 20%. We don't know a lot about moneychangers and their operations but there is that Bible story about Jesus turning over their tables in disgust so I don't think they were popular.

    Today we have a similar situation in 'gift cards'. A friend gave me a gift card for a restaurant I don't like as a thank you for shooting his son's wedding for free. My choices were to go eat there, give the card to charity who would benefit a a much reduced rate or sell it to a gift card exchange for half its face value. The gift card issuers count on me forgetting about it altogether. What do you do with the foreign coins you carry back from vacation? Can't win situation?
     
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  12. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    OK, here's my two cents (two Tets) worth :oldman:.

    IMG_7280.JPG
    Syria, Laodicea ad Mare, Septimius Severus
    IMG_7288.JPG

    100_4871.JPG
    Phoenicia, Tyre, Caracalla. Ex Al Kowsky collection.
    100_4877.JPG

    100_6101.JPG
    Syria, Cyrrhestica - Beroea (modern day Aleppo), Macrinus
    100_6104.JPG
     
  13. arizonarobin

    arizonarobin Well-Known Member

    I love this portrait! Beautiful coin.
     
  14. arizonarobin

    arizonarobin Well-Known Member

    You have set me on a mission with these beautiful portraits and coins of Alexandria. Somehow I have not managed to add an Alexandria tetradrachm of Julia Domna to my collection. Despite her being my main focus!
     
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  15. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Thanks, makes sense.
     
  16. dlhill132

    dlhill132 Member

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