Hi, I'm researching the coin authentication/grading business and I was hoping to get some perspective from any coin dealers: For coins that have already been graded by a major company like PCGS or NGC, do you ever regrade those coins? If so, is this rare? Thanks for any insight!
I have read a few people state that they would submit from one company to another thinking they will get a higher grade and then they get a lower grade! ....
Some people try a crossover, hoping for a higher grade. You don’t necessarily need to be a dealer, anybody can do it. I’ve done it in recent years with mixed results.
Each company has their own standards for example eye appeal means a lot at PCGS. So yes you can play company to company with certain coins but the thing is the market realizes that and there’s plenty of coins where the lower graded PCGS will sell about the same as the higher graded other company. You’ll probably hear some nonsense replies about how everything upgrades blah blah blah. Some coins are undergraded and will upgrade, but it’s nowhere near as easy as the internet and people that have little to no experience in it make it sound. You have to have a skills and put a lot of effort searching into it
I have only done cross over on three coins - from ANACS to NGC. Two crossed over at the same grade and one went down a grade. As @baseball21 states, it's not as easy as some might say. The only reason I did it was to get the coins into like holders for my collection.
First, welcome to the neighborhood! You probably won't find the results of your question to be accurate. I don't think either of those companies keeps records of "crossovers" and/or "resubmissions", and the responses you get, here, would hardly constitute a reasonable base to draw any conclusions. Both, NGC and PCGS have graded about 30 million coins each. Chris
OTOH, there really is no debate that slabbers standards have weakened over the years. That is why older slabs are sought after and looked at so intensely at coin shows, the likelihood it could upgrade is higher even though they have been picked over for 2 decades now to for resubmittals. Its really part of the game. Tougher standards at first, and once you have slabbed most older coins, you loosen standards to encourage resubmits to keep the fees rolling in. They can't live solely on ASE MS70 First Day of Issue con job coins sold on HSN. Then, after enough wailing about too loose of standards for too long, they come out with a premium "red label" slab with tougher standards and everyone wants to crack out and get their coins in the "tougher" slab because they bring higher premiums. Endless ways of sucking money out of the hobby and not having to bother actually selling coins. Btw, I am entirely hating on slabbers. I am fully aware the reason they exists were the tens of thousands of coin dealers who would scam and swindle their customers mercilessly. The slabbers got rid of most of those, but they bring their own problems. My "perfect world" of all collectors actually learning how to grade properly, know how coins are made so as to judge errors themselves, and learn to evaluate problem coins is a pipe dream, I know.
When trying to crossover a coin to gain a higher grade one should always remember there are no guarantees.
Before PCGS removed the ability to see all Trueviews, there were many instances of the same coin at multiple grades. There are 12 pictures with different cert# for one single 1925D Lincoln ,all at MS65RD and one Trueview of the exact same coin at MS65+ If at first you don't succeed, try,try,try,try,try,try,try,try,try,try,try,try again!!
Actually, PCGS will guarantee to not lower a grade if that is the option you chose. https://www.pcgs.com/crossover
I read where David Bowers once stated that in the future the census figures on certain issues will be higher than the actual coins produced. That might be a little extreme, but I see his point.
Is your question asking if a person submits an already PCGS or NGC graded coin for a regrade? If so it is done ALL the time. Some coins are sent in numerous times trying to get an upgrade. A lot, and I mean a lot, are cracked out of the NGC or PCGS slab and submitted raw
I totally agree. If a certain coin might double in value from one grade to the next I can certainly see said coin being submitted multiple times in hopes it will eventually upgrade.
Yes. Look to grade bumps that you have a huge up charge, and you can pretty much bet the lower grade population is inflated by resubmits. If a 65 is $8k, but a 64 is $3k, you can see the incentive.
This is one of the great myths that dealers are more than happy to let people continue to think. Plenty of old holders would downgrade, most would grade the same, a few would upgrade or get a + grade since + grading wasn't even around then. Grading has evolved over the last 30 years and will again over the next 30, try cracking out early DCAMs and tell me how much loser they are at grading now. There would be FARRRR more Gold CAC stickers if it was anywhere close to that easy. This whole they're more likely to upgrade or everything has upgraded is nothing but a rumor. Older holders are sought after both because of that myth and because the holders themselves have become collectable. The only place where the old holder has a major advantage is when it comes to RD copper, you'll get a premium for the RD ones that are in a holder from 20 years ago, Steel cents without stains as well. Nope. World coins and moderns is where their growth has been as well as the countless Morgans and Double Eagles left. They don't need resubmissions nor do they need to intentionally manipulate thing for them. Actually, yes they can survive off of moderns very easily. You don't have to like them or use them but the hating on them is where a lot of the misinformation like this about them comes from.
