ancient coins

what is the earliest as far as numismatics in which you can clearly observe the obverse and verify its design with history? were they Greek, Egyptian? French? from turkey? The middle east? where did widespread numismatics begin prior to the romans? It is my understanding people use to barter with salt prior to coins.

Thanks

 

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This electrum stater struck at Ephesus, circa 600 BC may answer your question. The obverse inscription has been translated as "I am the badge of Phanes", & quoting Harlan Berk, "Phanes himself remains unknown to us, but he was probably an aristocrat or powerful merchant who lived around 600 B.C." Of course there were earlier coins made in China, however, they were cast & not die struck as the above coin. Numismatists like to make that distinction.

 

600 BC? That is hardly ancient? Nothing before that? How do they date these? Carbon dating? We have art going back 30,000 years to the caves of Chauvet but only 600 year bc coin? Thank you though, I will research.

 

Stanley, I think you'd benefit from some independent research, the internet has an inexhaustible supply of information. Keep in mind that the famous cave at Chauvet, which dates back 35,000 years ago, is a paleolithic site (new stone age) & decorated by people who had no metal tools & were hunter-gatherers. Civilized society as we know it didn't exist back then. If there was any form of commerce it must have been barter.

 

Thank you. So many of these earlier coinage were of the iron era?

 

Someone linked to this article some time ago that I found very helpful. It’s a long read but well worth it if you are interested in the origins of struck coinage.

http://oldestcoins.reidgold.com/article.html

 

I was going to post that article too but Reid Goldsborough's website is defunct and the link is broken.

Fortunately, it was archived by the Wayback Machine. Here's a good link:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180301151305/http://oldestcoins.reidgold.com/article.html

And here is my own example of what is thought by some to represent the world's first coin, which happens to be a die match (obverse and reverse) to the coin that heads the article:


KINGS OF LYDIA, temp. Ardys - Alyattes
c. 630s-564/53 BCE (dates from a CNG listing of a similar coin)
Electrum trite, 4.8 gm, 13.4 mm. Sardes mint.
Obv: head of roaring lion right, sun with four rays on forehead
Rev: two incuse square punches
Ref: Weidauer Group XV, 64; BMC 2 (I do not have these books and cannot verify)

You will probably find the whole article interesting and useful but if you don't wish to read the whole thing, scroll a third of the way down and you'll find a table in the form of a timeline. It covers, briefly, the earth and human timeline with emphasis on coinage and major points in ancient Greek and Roman history. Note that there has been other scholarship which has minor differences in the time frames shown for the earliest coins, and that there were other electrum coins struck Asia Minor which have utilitarian designs not thought to connote the issuing entity.

 

TIF, That's a great example of a historically important coin. Your collection is an endless source of surprises...

 

Thanks for reposting that @TIF. I didn’t realize his site was down.

Beautiful coin by the way.

 

Interesting article. I'm curious as to why the lion heads of Lydia? Why a lion? Were they native to Greece? And they mentioned that the coinage was used to pay mercenaries and to establish taxes? Does this insinuate that there were no state run militaries? Many of these coins mention Babylon, but what civilization was prior to Mesopotamia? I thought Egyptian empire was prior to Babylon? Hmmm... Interesting. I like the history. I'd like to know more about the ancient cities of gold.







This appears to have the same

 

I may stand corrected, but I believe there weren't states as we think of them today. Most were City-States. Each city was a state within itself.

 

Pick up the book “The History of the Ancient World” by Susan Wise Bauer. It’s is a heafty book (1700 pages) but gives a good overview of history from as far back as historians can ascertain up until the fall of Rome.

 

I had the same reaction when first learning about ancient coins but it is indeed the case. What we consider a coin only dates to somewhere in the 660 BC range. These aren't dated via carbon dating but rather by where they were found. Happily, as buildings were constructed, it was common practice to place an "emission deposit" for the building's good fortune which included coins. The construction of major ancient temples is fairly well understood chronologically which was able to establish a starting date for several types of electrum coinage, although there is still some ambiguity.

Striated electrum is often thought to have preceded the Lydian coinage. They circulated contemporaneously and these designs are definitely more simplistic so it's possible they came first (~660 BC), although there is a fair amount of active research ongoing in this area.


The next evolution was the coinage of Phanes as posted above. It is not known who Phanes was or if it was a person but they put the first letters on coins:



The next progression was the coinage of Lydia. While remaining a topic of debate by some, this type is now commonly considered to be the first official coin, meeting all of the requirements laid out in the dictionary definition: it is the first coin to have certified markings which signify a specific exchange value and be issued by a governmental authority for use as money. Earlier coins like the striated and geometric types failed to clearly meet the final criteria, whereas the lion was consistently associated with Lydia.



Up until now, coinage was still struck in electrum, an alloy of gold and silver. It took until Croesus (of "Rich as Croesus" fame) to create bimetallic currency, starting with this heavy gold stater:



It is fascinating that ancient Egypt only used bartering for thousands of years of their existence. Their first real ancient coin was minted under Pharoah Nektenebo II in 361 BC. That's closer to modern day than the first pyramids.



There is ample ongoing research in this field, especially awaiting the publication of the new "White Gold" book which should set the record straight on several misconceptions (i.e. electrum being only a naturally occurring alloy is incorrect: they controlled the ratio of silver/gold to increase profit margins).

 

Interesting question. Looks like you have some good answers above.
I think you limit numismatics when you use modern coins as a starting place (ie - something round, flat and with obverse and reverse designs).
I collect coins from a relative late-comer to the coin production business, Republican Rome. Rome was founded in 753 BC and did not produce coins until about 300 BC. But... they had ways of measuring wealth as early as Servius Tullius. He was the 6th king of Rome and reigned from 575 to 535 BC. He divided Roman citizens into Classes by wealth. Rome paid their soldiers who fought at Veii in 400 BC. Rome used bronze as a form of money. Aes Rude, or cast bronze pieces, have been found at ancient temples as votive offerings and in / under foundation corner stones. You can see some of the forms of bronze below.

This box has some bars, broken plates, irregular pieces, etc. The shells could have been votive items for Venus.

The pictures below are from my display on Pre-Coin Roman money.






https://www.academia.edu/36955204/R...fore_founding_in_753_BC_to_the_2_rd_Punic_War

http://rrdenarius.blogspot.com/

 

To Stanley, Al & All. Yet again, I'll put my head on the line by suggesting that Phanes was not a living person, but an immortal of mythology. I have dipped into that inexhaustible supply of (internet) information, so here goes. Was Phanes an aristocrat or powerful merchant ? Probably not. Phanes = Greek, first-born, mystic primeval deity of procreation and the generation of new life, who was introduced into Greek mythology by the Orphic tradition. - Has been depicted as a deity emerging from a cosmic egg, entwined with a serpent. Had helmet and broad, golden wings. - He was depicted in Greco-Roman mosaics as a man turning the Zodiac Wheel...to the imminent and ever-present peril faced by those in positions of power. - That should keep you all awake tonight ! For myself I say, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained !"

 

Bert, That's an interesting take & a new one to me. Since the meaning of "Phanes" is still a source of speculation your input is just as valuable as everyone else's .

 

Ancient Joe, Another great post !

 

Hi Al, but sorry, I don't except your conclusion. My input is either right or wrong. If wrong, then invalid, if right, without being unduly self-centred, it is then valid. You might forget about other inputs by others, unless they are right, even if only partly. I feel you are being unduly dismissive about "an interesting take" and a new one to you. Try to see it in a more positive light.

 

Ancient civilizations date back way further then we where taught in school. The Sphinx is way older then the Pyramids, probably circa 12K BC or older. In Turkey, Gobeklitepe dates back to 10K BC. Since then discoveries of lost cities beneath the waters of the Indian/ Pacific Oceans. Pyramids have been located in Bosnia! We are just beginning to scratch the surface on this subject.
In Sumer, Egypt, Akkad probably gold/ silver talents where used as currency. Ordinary folks just used barter.
Here is one of my early coins from Lydia.

AV 1/6 th Stater ND Sardes Mint struck circa 564-55BC
Kroisus ruler of Lydia

 

Panzerman, for clarification... do you own this coin-- the coin you showed-- or did you mean you own one of this type of coin (a Kroisos hekte)?