1964D Prooflike Quarter

But isn't eye appeal a factor in determining the MS64 grade?

 

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An encyclopedia?

 

The eye appeal I am referring to is independent of the numerical grade. A PL Coin may have marks, etc that prohibit it from a higher grade, but still has the PL Quality. You can't tell me a PL coin is on the same level of a coin of an equivalent grade. Take a PL MS64 with all the marks characteristic of MS64, but significant mint frost on the devices and mirrored fields. You think it's only worthy of MS64? No, it's a superior coin, but not worthy of a higher numerical grade.

 

I think that in trying to unconfuse the grade, you confused yourself

 

What are you talking about? Elaborate.

 

A MS64 coin received that grade because of it's merits including eye appeal, what you are saying is if the coin is graded MS64PL, then that coin was graded MS64 without getting a consideration for eye appeal so they added the PL after the grade for that.

 

An MS64PL possesses eye appeal independent of eye appeal not necessary for it's respective grade.

 

You hit the nail directly on the head without even trying.That's just it exactly, you don't trust the grade it was given. No part of it. That is why the TPG's such as PCGS are stumbling. No one trust what they say anymore because next week, it will be different.

 

No, you're just confused as to what Prooflike means. You didn't answer my question. So you think an MS64 PL Coin should just be considered MS64? Or should it be a 65 or 66 based on it's eye appeal? Again, elaborate on what you're getting at.

 

I know exactly what it means to the beholder.

 

And.... You didn't answer my question.

 

Man, this thread got derailed...

This quote is what started this back and forth..

MS is for mint state coins.

PR is for proof coins.

PL is for business strike coins exhibiting PROOF LIKE qualities. Hence the PL. It is not reserved for mint state coins as a circulated coin can exhibit PROOF LIKE qualities. Hence an AU58PL.

 

So now you are answering for @physics-fan3.14 ?

Define above average. Isn't a Ms 68 above average? Ms 69?

 

I'm not answering for physicsfan3.14, actually, I'm sure he can destroy your flawed argument more sophisticated and effectively than I. No further comment.

 

There are coins that were struck with new dies that have mirrored fields. The response I got to this was: "If you compare a true PL coin to the vast majority of business strike coins, you will see a clear difference."
This is true. Why? Because every coin that is struck after the first coins are struck, is struck with a used die. If PL should be added to a grade because of a die state, then the die state of the last coins struck should be added too. See it's getting complicated. Then there is the merit of eye appeal added to a grade. Die state and eye appeal are very very closely related.

 

And then you have PCGS’s unwritten rule to grade NGC crossovers one grade lower than what was on the NGC slab originally.

 

Y'all give this guy a hand, It's simple right.
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/if-you-had-to-choose-between-ms64pl-and-ms65.331461/

 

There you go.

 

They aren't stumbling at all nor did he imply they cannot be trusted. He looks for elite/special examples so the extra descriptors would help him weed out the others and narrow his search. The types of things he generally looks for are things that price guide buyers are always blown away by how much they cost

Depends what it is. For a 1983 Kennedy yes a 68 would be WAYYYYY above average and an elite coin, for a 2018 ASE a 68 would be average at best if not below average.

No such rule exists and your theory has been disproved countless times.