http://www.usrarecoininvestments.com/coin_articles/cac_coin_grading.htm They find the best Third Party Slabbed coins (In their collective opinion) and add a sticker. Ben
Ben, You obviously weren't collecting in the late 80s. Prices go up because of demand, plain and simple. I would agree that prices have spiked due to the internet, but the upwards pressure on prices are due to demand, and not any conspiracy of third party graders/service providers. To suggest, much less guarantee, that it was would be a mistake, in my opinion....Mike
Thanks. So what's the big controversy about, just another rake-off? Er, wait a minute, I guess the implication will be that the unstickered slabs are somehow inferior coins. Hmmm. I think I heard enough. Being the well-mannered hobbyist I am I'm not going to say where I think they can stick their stickers.
CAC is an entity that is establishing a trading network and participating in market making in PCGS and NGC coins it has approved of as (in my words) solid for the grade or better. Those who submit their NGC and PCGS coins to CAC for approval and/or purchase CAC approved NGC and PCGS coins, are in essence seeking an additional expert opinion of the coins. For additional details, here is a link to the CAC website: http://www.caccoin.com/index.html
Mike, I've been collecting for 40 years and in the late 80s is when the TPG craze really got going, they were making money like crazy then. Then that famous letter that David Hall wrote was the trigger for the big drop. I simply chose to say out of the fray... Ben
Ben, If you have that perspective, how do you justify the statement "I can pretty much guarantee this incredible upward spike came with the advent of the internet which opened doors like no other magazine special or telemarketing scheme"? Because I just don't get it.... There was no such thing as the Internet in the 80's and the prices went through the roof. The point being that demand, from collectors like you and me, are what cause the price increases (and decreases), not the supply side (and not a letter from David Hall). The internet facilitates things (just like the TPGs did when they started), and thus helps with the demand side (although I would argue the Internet also provides more competition and thus lower prices), but there are far broader economic forces at work which led to the increase in prices -- and almost all of this is demand. Listen, it is easy to point to the TPGs, the internet, or the CAC as the "problem", but I would argue that they are doing nothing but what the market is asking for. If they had no value, they would not be present. But they do add value, they do facilitate transactions, so they continue -- because we as collectors need/want them. Now, you could argue that collectors shouldn't need them, but the facts are that they do, and the market (i.e. demand) has spoken. So you can pee into the wind that they are evil and profit hungry (which is at least in part true), but to deny their impact or value -- or the reason they are in existence (collectors/demand) -- would be a mistake, in my opinion. Respectfully...Mike
Internet commerce is unregulated so there is no way of knowing how much trade is directly or indirectly attributed to it. One thing is for sure, it's helped a lot of little known (hobby) areas get the exposure they needed to increase sales dramatically and bring in new collectors. Coin collecting is just one. I was one of those laughing when a friend of mine got a computer in 1988 and was selling custom made fishing lures on 'usenet groups' or something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet Take Care Ben
Thanks Phoenix. We should order pizza and pop too. i have a feeling we will be rich soon we can start celebrating now
Yes, the usenet existed in '88, but that's about it. And it was a loooooooooooooong way from being the internet. I was on it, using an Apple II E computer which had a whopping 64k of memory and everything ran from floppy disk. The internet as we think of it didn't even really exist until 1998 - 13 years after the TPG's came into existence. And since your fond of links, here is one that recounts the history of the internet - Click Here
Doug, I never said the TPGs didn't exist before the internet. I merely implied that the internet opened doors for comerce which simply weren't there beforehand and without these doors some would have undoubtedly gone under or consolidated. Sadly it's also opened the doors for the scamming TPGs but they are still TPGs. Peace Doug, it's not worth the argument... Ben
So, on the one hand you can "pretty much guarantee" and on the other hand there is "no way of knowing". Hmmm.... That said, I am well aware of Usenet, Fidonet, and other online forums, and my use of them predates the rise in prices in '88-'89. To point to them as a reason for the rise in price is experienced in this timeframe is flat out wrong. I'd have to see when rec.coin.collecting was started, but I would be surprised if it was any earlier than the early to middle 90's. That said, I agree with you that the Internet has had an effect. However, I do not believe that it is the primary reason you suggest that it is, and given that there is "no way of knowing", it is hardly a "guarantee". Which was the point of my response above. Personally, I would point to the following as increasing prices (i.e. demand) over the past twenty years: 1) TPGs 2) Internet (and eBay) 3) State Quarter program 4) Overall economic conditions (i.e. disposable incomes, consumer confidence, inflation) Again, to point to one of these, the Internet, as the root of the price concern is to ignore other very important factors...Mike
I think that's a good list and would add that the effect of each of those factors was/is somewhat dependent upon each of the others. For example, the TPG influence has been aided by the Internet and economic conditions. Likewise, the Internet would not have had the impact it has, were it not for the TPG factor, and so on.
p.s. I would also argue that the CAC, much like the TPGs when they were formed, are trying to address consumer confidence (or lack thereof), and thus would tend to drive demand (and thus prices).
Your question is pretty much answered in his comments. For his purposes, investor coins were those costing over $1000 and collector coins were those costing less than $1000.
