Is that about the same time that those who bought all those raw coins find out that they purchased altered coins, damaged coins, harshly cleaned coins or downright counterfeit coins that are worth maybe 20% of what they paid for them ?
20%? You must be feeling generous tonight Sadly, over the years, I have seen many instances in which collectors learned that their prized uncertified coins/collections were worth 10% or less of what they thought. This discussion has, however, illustrated the idea that whether you buy uncertified coins or certified ones, there are pitfalls to consider.
I have made no bones about my bad taste at times, and praise at other times about the BIG TPG, but .... I have NEVER bought a collection of BU cents without a few/bunch of " BU " polished shiners mixed in.... I have never bought a pile of slabbed Lincolns with a bunch of polished shiners mixed in....... When dad or grandpa or uncle George passes, and the family bring the box of slabbers to the coin shop, worst they going to get is a % of grade bid...not a sad story of how they have a pile of junk
But sometimes they have a pile of junk Jack. I've been the one trying to help them figure that out too many times - before they go to the dealer's shop. I do understand your point though, there are many unscrupulous dealers out there. But there are some honest ones as well.
I am interested to know where this information comes from. As a coin seller I am interested in tapping into this new capital, unfortunately my guess is that this is hyperbole in an attempt to make a point. I expect that billions of dollars flowing into the coin market would have an effect like none you can imagine. When the coin funds of 1989/1990 opened that brought about $160 million new dollars into the market (In February 1989, Kidder Peabody launched a $40 million rare coin investment fund, later increased to $110 million, named the American Rare Coin Fund. Then a year later, in February 1990, Merrill Lynch underwrote a $50 million fund called the NFA World Coin Fund Limited Partnership) and prices for investment grade coins still haven't recovered from the downturn following the withdrawal of that money, what would 10-20 times that much money infused into the market do?!?
Really? How many coins have been sold over the internet, or since 1995 when Ebay came into the picture. I think $$$Billions might even be low balling the number. Without the internet, chances are none of these "Value Adding Companies" wouldn't even exist and we'd all be doing something different now... Take Care Ben
Originally Posted by GDJMSP Is that about the same time that those who bought all those raw coins find out that they purchased altered coins, damaged coins, harshly cleaned coins or downright counterfeit coins that are worth maybe 20% of what they paid for them ? I can't believe what I just read. It happens all the time, and of course it matters, to many collectors (and yes, I am talking about "collectors" not just "investors") even if not to you.
I collected coins for 45 years and every raw key date coin I've sent to the ANA and then ANACS for authentication was determined to be authentic. Perhaps the size of my numismatic library had something to do with my success. Or was it that I searched out reputable dealers that made the difference. As memory serves me, we did just fine without having to pay some total stranger for a questionable opinion based on a system that even the alleged pros can't consistantly function within. I might also add that the money I saved by not getting drawn into the hype has translated into many more coins in my collection. Thanks to the efforts of the greedy dealers who created a convoluted grading system and the slab phenomenon, we now have a collecting community that has been brain washed into thinking that a slab guarantees the coin is original and genuine unless otherwise indicated, and the result is that thousands are being scammed by those who know better. Namely the TV hucksters, the self slabbers, and best of all, those same dealers who keep comming up with created rarieties like the "first strike" "signature series" yadda, yadda, yadda.......... The scamming that took place prior the the advent of the 70 point grading system and the introduction of TPG's pales in comparison to what is taking place today.
Mark, what did CT say about hyperbole? #1, The Knowledgeable collector won't let this scenario happen. #2. The Knowledgable collector won't liken their collection to a source of income like Social Security for neither will support you (all by themselves) in your Golden Years. What's the old adage about a coin and a book, which should come first? If the book is purchased before the coin, 99% of those negative results Doug posted can be avoided. As we both know, there are many, many who choose not to buy the book when they begin their numismatic journey. This is where their future problems begin. IMHO a Coin Collection is supposed to create an enjoyable diversion or hobby for the individual who has one. When investing and collecting begin to mix, bad things will happen more times than not for the investor. Take Care Ben
Ben, the word "knowledgeable" was nowhere to be found in the post you quoted or even your reply to it. If that was what you were speaking of, it would have been nice to have included it. Unfortunately, the reality is that many collectors are not knowledgeable and do suffer the fate previously mentioned.
Kinda funny that they came into existence and managed to survive just fine for quite a few years before the internet ever existed. By the way, that term "value adding companies" is all yours since I don't believe they add any value whatsoever. They do however add information, and I always thought information was a good thing - kinda like books
My whole (historical) gripe is the new (like the Doctor I mentioned in an earlier post) rich, clueless, new collector who has the deep pockets to drive coins to astronomical prices. In the magazine COINage the trend for coins has been tracked every month and it's nearly always green. I'd love to see the overall percentage increase of coin sale prices over the past 30 or so years, yes I know PCGS has a graph and shows a more than 6,000% increase since 1970, but I'm interested in only certain coins or types. But, when one goes the rest will eventually follow... I can pretty much guarantee this incredible upward spike came with the advent of the internet which opened doors like no other magazine special or telemarketing scheme. With all this cash trading hands there are naturally going to be "services" spring up and I've got to be honest I suspect the altruistic intentions of these service providers began to change (soon after their inception and cash volume went thru the roof) from providing a reliable trustworthy service to lining their own pockets and figuering out new ways to generate more remunerable returns. Mark, I'm impressed with some of your posts here and I have no doubt you're vastly more versed in the (Big Picture) coin market than I am. One which really caught my attention was you advising a member that the costs associated with having their dime graded outweighed the final value of such a graded item, Well Done :thumb: But, like anyplace where the public mingle, opinions are going to differ and everyone is entitled to their own... Take Care Ben
Got a link? The wheel was around for thousands of years before the car came along too. The Company Motto. http://WWW.COLLECTORS.COM/ Take Care Ben
Begging your pardon, pardners, but I just finished reading these 4 pages of erudition, and hell, I'm still not sure, what exactly is cac???
