ID Help - Ayyubid Dirhem? (and a Mughal Dump?)

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Marsyas Mike, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I recently got this in a lot - I've spent some time cruising Arabic dirhems and found a few that seem close, but no exact matches. As close as I can come is an Ayyubid dirhem "'Square in circle" type. Kalima around square. Caliph's name (al-Nasir) and titles" (from a FORVM post). Or it could be a Crusader imitation. Or a 19th century issue from Egypt that I am just missing...this is far out of my area, but it intrigues me and I'd like to learn more.

    It is about 20 mm in diameter and weighs 2.66 grams. Many thanks!

    Dirhem Dec 18 lot (0).jpg

    While I'm at it, my local dealer had this impressively dumpy copper dump in his junk bin. It is one of those coins I wouldn't have thought an area of interest until I got it in hand - I think it is marvelous. Anyway, I've been surfing images of these as well. As close as I came was the Ahmadnagar Sultanate - it is 20 mm in diameter and 7 mm thick, weighing 20.94 grams. I found a lot that were similar, but not quite like this one. Again, thanks for your help.

    _Mughal Dump maybe Dec 18 (0).jpg

    _Mughal Dump maybe Dec 18 (4).JPG
     
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  3. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Marsyas Mike, That bronze coin looks like it would jam-up a vending machine :D.
     
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  4. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    The Ayyubid i think is Al-Nasir II. Salah al-Din Yusuf.
    The copper coin denomination is called a Dam. Not much to help with attribution though.
     
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  5. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    On the side right, I can read " The Prince of Believers". That's the title which was attributed to all Caliphs.
    On the side left, I can read " Saladin, the triumphal King."
     
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  6. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for your help and input on these - the Al-Nasir II. Salah al-Din Yusuf seems to be matching my rather incomplete example.
     
  7. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    The mint of your dam likely is Surat (based on left photo). Mughal ruler could be Aurangzeb.
     
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  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the additional information, THCoins. I'm going to try and educate myself on these interesting, chunky coins. For now, here is my semi-attribution I'll use on the flip:

    India, Ahmadnagar Æ Dam
    Burhan Nizam Shah III
    c. 1610-1634
    Surat Mint

    Persian inscription both sides:
    Darb Burham Nizam Shahi / Fi
    Shuhur Sanah (?).
    (20.94 grams / 22 mm)
    Uncertain Attribution; appears
    to be a Mughal dam of the
    17th century.
     
  9. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member


    I would not go for your semi-attribution, because it is contradictory.
    Ahmadnagar was an independent sultanate, until it was taken over by the Mughals.
    In addition, the city of Surat has never been within the territory of Ahmadnagar.

    This is not at all my collection focus but did a quick search for you. Please compare your coin with this one: https://www.zeno.ru/showphoto.php?photo=124941
     
  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Thank you, THCoins - my ignorance of both Indian history and Indian numismatics is showing! I really appreciate your help with this.

    I'd been on that Zeno.ru before, but I am so new to this sort of coinage I didn't even know where to start my search. The example you linked does look a lot like mine.

    Again, thank you for your help.
     
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