Hello everybody, i wanted to show you this 1802 cent which i I bought from the same dealer who sold me that fake 1800 dime i posted a few months back. So, given its illustrious provenance i am naturally curious to know if the coin is "OK", and if the dealer sold it to me in a moment where he was experiencing a rare lapse of honesty! It is not a rare variety, S-234 R-1 or 2 if i remember correctly, with the final "S" in States first cut too low then corrected. The patina is even medium brown. With thanks in advance for you comments, Eduard
I am farrrrr from an expert, but the pics I have found show the first loc of hair on her head under the T in liberty. I hope I'm wrong On furter examination the hair does look right. pics here
I'm no expert either but it looks genuine to my eyes. Have you checked the weight? Have you examined it under a 10X loupe for anything that might look suspicious. That is what I would do if I had the coin in hand.
I do not have any expertise in large cents; however, after looking at a couple I own and a photo of a genuine 1802, I would comment that the portrait just doesn't look quite right and the positioning under "LIBERTY", as mentioned in a previous reply, is definitely suspect. Also the date is closer to the portrait than the samples I observed. I have to ask why you would continue to do business with a dealer who has sold you fradulent coins previously?? v/r Dan
Eduard, I hate to say it but I have a bad feeling about the coin! There is just too much wear on the coin to warrant the amount of Red left on the coin...especially on the Reverse and Vice Versa (too much Red to warrant the amount of wear). The flaws in the planchet on the Obverse along the rim from 2:30 to 3:30 and along and in front of Miss Liberty's neck makes me believe that a crude Die was made to strike the coin. Also, the weakness on quite a bit of the Lettering inside the rims although the rims and ticking appear mainly intact, is another little detail that doesn't appear right. Then, there is the actual color of the planchet which makes me believe that it was struck on a off-composition planchet. I edited the pictures and have provided two of each (Obverse and Reverse) below. The first pictures of the Obverse and Reverse have only been cropped to take out any excess background, while the second pictures of the Obverse and Reverse were cropped, brightened and contrast added. The added contrast really highlights the off-composition color of the planchet. I hope that I am wrong and that the coin is geniune! Maybe some others will have a different take on the coin. Frank
Looks like an S-241 to me. Double S, double fraction bar and the point of the hair curl between the B & E. Looks ligit as well.
Those "planchet flaws" near the rim in front of Ms Liberty are actually the letters MERIC and are incused. Go figure, and don't ask cuz I haven't a clue.
That makes more sense, here are some pics of the s-241. click here This one has the little dimpple in the center of the reverse also and the correct berry count.
Here's one from a Heritage auction to compare http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=460&Lot_No=2244#Photo
Frank, I have quite a different take.... FYI, red is a common color for corrosion on copper, and is nothing at all to be worried when assessing a coin's authenticity, and I suspect it is what is causing the reddish hue in areas of the photo. Here's an example of a large cent showing this type of reddish corrosion and splotchy toning, and I suspect Eduard's coin resembles it: As an aside, increasing contrast is often not a good thing to do with photos. It changes the colors, in your photo making the red appear more questionable, yet the coin itself doesn't look that way -- part of the reason why I always warn against using "auto" anything when post-processing as contrast enhancement in particular (as well as increasing the brightness) has unintended consequences in terms of the true look of a coin. That's not to say it's not counterfeit, but rather to say the red color-- particularly after you've changed it in post processing and understanding it is a common color on old copper-- is not a reason to judge it so. Respectfully submitted...Mike p.s. I'll look closely at the coin in a few mins and assess my opinion on its being real or counterfeit -- but I see nothing to suggest that it is counterfeit, and quite a bit to suggest it is not.
Final comment: I believe this is a genuine S-241 which was likely conserved by somone who knew what they were doing. It is a nice example, and one I would be happy to own.
While watching Two and a Half Men, it dawned on me that the MERIC on the obverse is the result of die clash from AMERICA in the reverse die. Also, the markings near Liberty's neck are likely from the wreath design on the reverse. As for the color of this coin, the copper planchets of that era contained a variety of trace elements which is why there is a wide range of differing shades and even colors in early Large Cents. Nice chocolate brown examples are the exception.
Copper can be a real challenge to image. Lighting can make copper look red or brown. I like the coin and would guess it looks a bit more brown in hand.
You folks know a lot more about old Large Cents than I do and I welcome as well as thank you all for the information! I am always in a learning mode and the information you all provided, will be invaluable to me in the future. I have always liked the old Bust Large Cents but have shied away from them due to my lack of knowledge. Also, I am sure that Eduard will be extremely delighted to find out that the coin appears to be genuine! Frank
Yes Indeed i am delighted! thank you, all of you. You know, this is a coin i had almost "written off" as i thought there "must" be something wrong with it. I did weigh it a while back and it was well within range for this type, and the color is nice and regular. But still i was sceptical. It can now takes its place in my collection. Once again, thank you, and have a good weekend everyone. Eduard
