A Question Posed to All of You Dealers...

But if you go through with the transaction, how would you get your money back?

 

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Chances are you won't. Unless you can recover it from the person that sold it to you, or the person that had it stolen takes pity on you and gives you a reward.

 

He never said Pawn Shop he said coin shop.
I doubt he is alerting the police if these items are stolen as it's unlikely
be will getting reimbursed.

 

Exactly!

 

I understood that. Pawn shopp was stated in a previous post, so I commented on pawn shops and stated that police very likely visit coin dealers if coins/bills are stolen.

 

If the dealer suspects it is stolen he should pass on the deal.

 

Refusing business to the “thugs” could have gone badly in more ways than one. If by chance the bullion had been legitimately acquired, the shop owner could have gotten some very bad press if he was of a different race than his prospective customers. Just look at how the recent Starbucks situation went down...

 

I live in NY too. Getting the id info is standard. I wouldn't suspect an issue if the person selling is willing to provide a legit id. Worst case is they are just really stupid and will end up in legal trouble. Can't always stereotype people by looks. I live in Brooklyn and half of the people out in the streets look at least one sort of suspicious

 

Well, I teach just the opposite to my students. Judging people can save your life, and normally our first instincts are correct. Criminals count on making us vulnerable by causing us to doubt ourselves, and that is when they strike.

Being a coin dealer implies risk. You have to be concerned about everything from people trying to sell you counterfeits or altered coins, to people trying to steal from you, to the risks implied by buying stolen goods, and even to being burglarized and/or robbed. If you are overly concerned about these issues, perhaps being a dealer isn't for you. Personally, I don't care about optics. Shady is shady is shady. Don't care what color.

 

This is the sort of thing that goes either way. Of course it's important to be prepared to understand and deal with such situations, but it's so subjective that it becomes a double edged sword. I've been on both sides, it's really best to just stick to the local laws and conventions. Getting and confirming id is a good safety net.

 

Until you're a business owner in a place like NY or NYC that gets hit with a discrimination lawsuit and is out of business.

Does the coin shop owner have a gun? If not what is he supposed to do run out the back door because he doesn't like the look of what walked in?

 

Most States have laws regulating the purchase of scrap metal. Mainly targeting transactions consisting of non-ferrous materials. Where a dealer is required to obtain copy of an ID, fingerprint, photo of seller, photo of the material being purchased, statement as to the origin of the material by the seller and etc. While most States probably don't force the issue, in my opinion most of these statutes are constructed broadly enough that coin shops, jewelers, cash for gold and other such businesses could be forced to comply.

In my state a scrap metal dealer cannot purchase scrap metal from a person wo has been found guilty, plead guilty or nolo to an offense involving the theft of scrap. Problem here is the State isn't required to provide dealers with a list of these individuals.

 

1. In my experience growing up in Niagara Falls and Buffalo, I have never known a coin or jewelry dealer with a family-owned business who wasn't armed and didn't have other security measures as well. When you are in the business of precious metals, not being armed makes you a vulnerable fool.

2. You have every right to refuse to buy a customer's coin or piece of jewelry, nor do you have to provide a reason as to why you aren't buying it. No one would be stupid enough to say it is because of how you look. And I do not say nor advocate people to do so simply based on appearance. But I do say to surmise people and their surroundings in their totality with people you come across, (especially as a dealer) which includes their appearance, behavior, body language, spoken words, etc. Ask questions. Listen and watch. Then use your instincts. When you have worked a job where your life depends on making judgements about how a person can pose a threat, it becomes second-nature and are skills that should be taught to everyone. That also includes watching what you say and write to people as well to avoid escalting situations and to be mindful of potential lawsuits.

3. You have the burden of proving I refused to buy your item based on what you look like. Good luck with that. You would then also have to prove there was a pattern of me doing so over time with other people similar to what you look like. Good luck with that, too. Then you can pay my lawyer's fees and court costs after you lose. Worried about bad press and social media uproar? Then don't go into business, or start your business and toss your instincts out the window and be prepared to be victimized.

4. I mentioned that these two punks did not know it wasn't supposed to come out of a slab, didn't know it wasn't a full ounce of gold, didn't know if it was a U.S. coin or not, and appeared to be teenagers (turns out he was 19). I'd say any reasonable person could assume these articulable facts in their totality give cause to the possibility they were acquired under suspicious circumstances, and at the very least warrant questions about how they were acquired. That is also a question commonly asked to other people looking to sell an item at a coin shop (and on Pawn Stars and Antiques Road Show), so to say it points to possible discrimination is laughable as they are "industry standard" questions.

Anybody can sue you for anything. The same thing can happen when renting apartments as I don't have to accept Section 8/Welfare recipients and can refuse people who have pets. Businesses can legally refuse to hire felons. Doctors aren't required to accept Medicaid patients. Airlines can force fat people to purchase 2 seats. Restaurants can refuse entry to those with "therapy" dogs. But they can all still try and sue you for discrimination and plaster your face and/or plaster you and your business with negative social media posts and comments.

And a coin patron can sue you because they feel you didn't like the way they look and thus didn't buy their gold coins.

Afraid of all those possibilities? Then don't go into business. Posting on your store door and other places inside your store that items you purchase from customers may be forwarded to law enforcement, requiring a thumbprint and/or a copy of your license for all purchases of jewelry or coins over $X and/or photographing patrons at the time of sale can help prevent this and word gets around out on the streets. I know a guy in Niagara Falls who does all those things if you want to pawn things or sell items to him over $300.

 

An old coin dealer friend of mine had a standard line he would use. He just told the folks that he didn't have a market for stuff like this and has a hard time selling it.
Few gave the little old man a problem because of how nice he said it. They didn't know he had a 38 strapped below the counter.

If he thought the seller was a bad guy, he would send them to a shop just down the street. All the guys there were off duty police.
The two dealers had a lot of fun playing with the bad guys. I had fun just watching.

Both of these dealers were great guys. They were honest and loved to teach the hobby. I really miss them.

 

Thinking if it might be a killer deal. One might loose their moral compass. Sad but greed is a real emotion

 

Okay, but that wasn't the point. The referenced individual has a fairly long history of being a great guy until an opportunity presents itself to go in for the kill.

 

Whether or not it is an option is dependent on location.

It's really not like that at all. It's actually extremely easy to prove it enough in many states. I'm not going to outline a way for people to scam others though

This actually isn't true either and varies GREATLY from place to place. I don't feel like doing a dissertation on the state/city/county differences with this but these blanket statements are in fact incorrect in many parts of the country. Some of the things you mentioned would actually land you in jail such as refusing Section 8 for that reason depending on where you are.

Times have drastically changed and the old school it's mine I can do what I want legal mentality no longer applies.

I was just pointing out the inaccuracies in some statements.

 

The US mint has made 3/4 oz gold coins in the past. Canada does the same thing.

 

I did not write anything inaccurate. You just have a difference of opinion. And of course laws are different in different localities. That goes without saying. I can only speak to my experiences in my hometown. Not sure why you think I am applying this to all places everywhere. Also not sure why you think I come off as some reckless "do-whatever-I-feel-like-and-to-hell-with-the-law" mentality.

You have things backwards, my friend. We 100% do live in a "it's mine and I can do what I want" mentality, and they are winning! People of the opposite sex can now use whatever bathroom they want, bring their pets on airlines and to restaurants, forcing landlords to allow renters to smoke pot in their homes, etc.

You just have to be smarter than them.