Aloha everyone! I thought I'd jump right into it with my first post! First off - a disclaimer: I am a total novice collector who is easily swayed by odd coins. I went to the coin shop yesterday with $55 worth of long saved-up allowance burning a hole in my pocket. I wanted to get something old, something silver, and something neat. I have recently fallen in love with medieval silver coinage (those big thalers are amazing!) and I was hoping to find something along that line - most likely worn away to nothing in order to fit into my price bracket I leafed through the UK books, then asked to see the Germany book. The coin shop in Honolulu organizes by country, not date, so I had a good time picking out the old coins from the modern ones on every page. Then I saw this fellow: Ok, Ok. I realize this most likely isn't a coin. Sorry if this is the wrong thread - I wasn't sure where to post. My guess is a medal or a religious token of some sort. The loop for attaching a string was soldered on after the fact and damaged the coin slightly in the process. The shop owner had no idea how old it was, what it was, or even how it ended up in the Germany book! Why did I get it? I fell instantly in live with the amazing high relief on the front and back. Such imagery! Here are some closer looks - Here we have a helmeted warrior holding a spear emerging on a battlefield from some sort of strongbox. The box appears to have some sort of lock/keyhole and that may be a key resting on the lid. Pure action! This side has a Philosopher/Apostle/saintly fellow standing by a rivr with a great tree and castle in the distance. He has somehow managed to het his foot into the mouth of a... well.... giant dog head (?) that is emerging from the river. Has anyone seen something like this before? Or perhaps someone can translate some of the latin? I really appreciate any and all info you can spare. PS - the coin/amulet cost $50 - I hope I wasn't robbed! Edit: forgot to add the coin is roughly 37 - 38 mm in diameter Mahalo, Henrik
I have no idea what it is- but I'm with you- the imagery is great. Even if it has no numismatic value it's still a very cool medallion. Andy
Thank you so much for the info - I agree - even if this isn't worth much as a coin, it is one of the stars of my (humble) collection based on its imagery! I would love to know what the latin means - and it would be great to track down another one with less wear for comparison. Such a mystery! Mahalo, Henrik
I thought I recognized the latin word " mort___" on this medallion. Could that mean death or something like that. The picture seems to show someone standing in a kind of box. It seems like the box lid is off to the side. Could that it represent a kind of cofffin. Notice one of the images near the right back seems to be a person holding an axe. Could this represent a battle behind fought where someone died, and this medal commemorates this. Ok this is just a huge wild guess! I could be 100 percent wrong. :eating:
The back of the medal seems to me to be a representation of Jonah and the Whale. Could that thing that looks like a monsters head be the whale? The city in the background could represent Nineveh? You have to remember most people didn't know what whales looked like back then when this medal could have been designed. Ok another wild guess. Just trying to figure it out myself. :smile
obverse legend: Christus Pro Peccatis Nostri Mortus Es Cor 15 3 "That Christ died for our sins", I Corinthians 15:3 (actual Latin text is "Christus mortuus est pro peccatis nostris")
This medal is part of a series of religious medals issued my various different cities and makers in Germany around 1545 - 1568. There are issues with Abraham and Isaak, christ rising and on the cross, etc.... This one Depicts, as someone guessed, Jonas and the whale. Here he is depicted with his leg in the whales mouth, there are others that show him half way in. The other side depicts Christ's resurrection, I know it doesnt quite look like it but it IS what it is supposed to be. The medal is listed in German as Depicting 'Christi Auferstehung' meaning Christ's Resurrection. The center figure coming out of the box is Christ, the others are sleeping and waking guards I think. The medal should be 38mm and be roughly 19,45g This is an issue from the city of Joachimsthal and is by (or in the style of) the medalist Nickel Milicz. This town used to be a part of Germany but is now in Bohemia in the Czech Republic. I have seen them sell from 300 to 400 USD, more or less depending on condition of course. Yours looks to be of a variety I have never seen, the side with christ is as I have always seen it, the side with Jonas is a quite a bit different in layout. I will not comment as to whether I think this is an authentic medal... here is one that is know to be authentic beyond doubt and sold for roughly 550 USD: Like I said there are others from other cities and other medalists such as the acclaimed master goldsmith Hieronymus Magdeburger for the city of Erzgebirge, it is much nicer of course and this one sold for about 4,000 USD and another early issue that sold for 1,110 USD issued by Böhmen, Mähren und Erzgebirge in 1537 from the school of the Concz Welcz.
Thank you Thank you Thank you! Drusus - I can't thank you enough for your insight on the origins of this medal. Simply amazing! I couldn't have been happier to learn that the coin depicts Jonah and the Whale as Moby Dick is one of my favorite books, and I love the sailor lore attached to that parable. The images of the medal similar to mine are amazing - the side with Christ rising is a near perfect match - but the other side is an odd "mirror image" of my coin. I also was surprised to see that the "hanging loop" was rather roughly attached to the genuine coin you posted - very similar to my medal. The loop is flat (parallel?) on my coin -but it may have been hammered that way as there is a lot of damage around the top of the medal that looks like a good hammering took place at one time or another. Of course, the inevitable question: is the coin I purchased genuine? The size matches (38mm) but the weight is off (17g). Does the "odd' depiction of Noah on my coin along with the 17g weight place it immediately in the counterfeit corner - or is there still a chance of it being genuine? I am sure medals of this type have been copied for a long time. A final question - is there anywhere you could point me to research this further? A good book or web site? I can't thank you enough for this info - I really appreciate it! Henrik
There are several works by Viktor Katz that deal with coins and medals of Bohemia, Austria and Germany and he would be considered the authority. I cant say I have these resources but I think they can be had online. look for: Die erzgebirgische prägemedaille des XVI. jahrhunderts Publisher: Praha : M. Schulz, graphische kunstanstalt, a.g., [c1931] This is an old publication but it should catalog these medals (I think) and might have further information about them. I cant say if it is genuine, if I went with my gut on this I would say not but I am no expert on these. Maybe you got a real good deal
I found the book on eBay. Item 200190212558. Prepare yourself for sticker shock. (The book may cost you more than the value of your medal.) I checked the ANA library and did not find it in their catalog. Sorry.
Ouch, THAT is expensive... Not sure if there are reprints or transcribed copies anywhere....if there are I havent found them. He wrote another book, one specificly about Bohemian coins...not sure if it has medals in it and its not near as extensive as the book mentioned above, I do know there are new reprinted copies that are available cheap of that book...I think its called something like 'a thousand years of bohemian coins' or something like that.
Ha! I also found that auction right after reading Drusus' recommendation. Ouch! Lets see.... Do I wanna buy some really neat coins, or a book? The more I look at coin book prices, the more I realize that that is a whole new avenue of collection. Very pricey stuff! With the weather in Hawaii books don't fare too well, so I'm not about to start a rare book collection anytime soon :smile I am going to pick up the re-print of the bohemian cons and medals book - The book may not have the exact medal I have, but I'd like to learn more about the subject (and I can afford this book - only $10). Thanks again for your help! Henrik
no problem and good luck...one of my favorite subjects is German and Austrian coins...they were truly great craftsmen when it came to medals and coinage...IMO, they brought the craft to a new level. Not to mention they were very big into minting coins and casting medals more than many societies. If someone stubbed their toe in Kitzingen, someone would design a medal to commemorate the event. I cant tell you how many times I have looked through auction catalogs and books with German medals and coins and just simply marveled at the craftsmanship and talent and attention to every little detail that went into them...they just dont make coins like those anymore...and its just my opinion that america has never achieved such fine craftsmanship in coins and medals. I also agree that books are very pricing often times, I think I would rather spend the money on a coin. I bought a few basic ones like the full Krause series and a few books about notgeld, unusual world coins, german coins, and medals but always very cheap used copies.
