Just a service warning. The PCGS CERTIFIED AT morgan man is back [NOT edynamicmarketing]

I'm cross-posting this warning from the CU forum.
Some big developments may or may not result from this, but it appears to be a valuable thread to save in case it gets poofed on that forum.

Link to thread (if the thread is poofed, then this will no longer work):

https://forums.collectors.com/discu...d-at-morgan-man-is-back-not-edynamicmarketing

 

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And some more info:

 

And images of the two coins:

1st one that was noticed:


Latest one:

 

This may be some of the better AT work out there (if it is confirmed to be true). It still does not mean everything is AT. Nor does it mean that toning doctors are all over the place; it's still quite difficult to get results like this. One just has to pay attention and be more careful.

Edit: I'm also still undecided on the whole matter, but am passing along the info so that everyone can process it.

 

I never buy coins that look like an oil slick in a puddle, after a rain storm.........for that matter, I don't buy into the 'toning' madness.

 

I actually do buy into the toning madness.
So things like this are a bit worrisome, but putting the information out there helps all of us learn and hopefully realize what is real and what is not.

 

Thanks for letting us know.

(BTW, My favorite type of toning is "crusty" original toning. )

 

Thanks for posting. I'm not an alarmist when it comes to AT but I also believe it's a real thing and it is happening.

I always assumed any doctoring was done after the coin was slabbed. I've seen monster coins for sale where a check of the TrueView image at PCGS showed no toning whatsoever. That's suspicious.

I notice on Collector's Universe the consensus seems to be these coins were toned before submission. It seems to me I would pay for the TrueView in that case. It would add legitimacy to the coin.

Any thoughts on how the alleged doctoring is done?

 

Those that are bad at it will gas coins that have a TruView (very easy to spot); some of the more clever ones will gas coins that don't have a TruView (although some have done the gassing too quick...such that you can still find the untoned example on ebay-this happened recently and was discussed in a few threads).

Another thing to be aware of: some will gas a coin (that had no image) and then send it in for reholder service with TruView. This ensures that they get a new holder with a picture without the coin ever crossing the grading desk.

With these alleged toners, the claim is that the person toned raw coins and then sent them in for grading (and got straight grades). I don't know how it's done this well, but there must have been a way to accelerate natural toning processes.

 

On another PCGS "The All WISE", this may seem trivial to some, but I have boxes of graded PCGS 1c 5c 10c 25c all proofs I submitted in 2002-2004 aging from 1964 PF69RD to 1990 PFRD69DCAM whck a vast majority are listed in their guide $2-3 ea. As we all know even the the 2000's it was 17+ to submit. And at that time both TPG were pushing the grading of proofs heavenly Does anyone thinks these have aby future such as crack out and resubmit? The 76-85S proofs ALL have undocumented RPM's....any novel ideas will be appreciated

 

I hope this doesnt seem like trolling-
I just scrolled thru edynamics store and he actually has a few Morgans with a similiar look> lots of yellow/gold, wrong progression, no pull away, painted on look.
Here is an example from his store of an obvious AT Morgan >

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1885-Silve...r-Toned-Uncirculated-/283178364479?nav=SEARCH

Look at his other items, lots of AT mixed in there.

 

Neither of those two coins looks AT to me other than the oversaturation of the photos. This JoeBB21 guy is an alarmist who is making a claim while not showing any evidence at all that these coins are AT.

 

It's not just Joeb it's also Ezmoney, who is likely the 2nd biggest toned Morgan collector after Aurora Borealis.

Are you suddenly better than two experts from the PCGS forum (as well as several other experts that have affirmed the positions of those two)?

 

GC photos do not tend to be over saturated IMO.

 

There was a Peace Dollar in Joebb's post from a year ago that was more troubling. There has been a flood of Morgan Dollars and Mercury Dimes with similar color patterns - always the light blue and gold. All were consigned through Great Collections.

 

+1...from first hand experience, GC has some of the most consistent and accurate photos (definitely compared to most other auction houses).

 

It was this one. On it's own, it looks MA/NT. When you start adding together other examples, it does make one wonder a bit...

 

If he had stopped at the top, it would have looked more natural to me. The tight band at the bottom doesn't look right to me. I think someone came a little too close with a torch/heat source. I'm also leery of that shade of icy blue and gold/yellow. I have seen it on other coins I believe to be AT that were not as skillfully done.

Just my two cents and no I don't hold myself out as the definitive expert on toned coins either.

 

@EyeAppealingCoins was this one of the Mercury Dimes?


There was also a similar ASE:

 

Good enough to make my own judgements about toning. I’ve bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rainbow toned coins in my life. And EZmoney has less than 150 posts on the CU Forum, is that what qualifies as an expert these days?

Joebb21 is claiming that the color looks unnatural in hand and looks spray painted on. Obviously he and EZMoney have an advantage that they have seen these coins in hand, but unless they provide more evidence than 2 photos, I am not convinced.