1925 Six Pence - Double Die

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by Michael Sartor, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. Found this old coin from my grandpas things after he passed. Not great shape but looks like legit doubling, anymore input would be much appreciated! New to the coin world, thanks!
     

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  3. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    Well, now, that does look interesting.

    That coin needs some acetone treatment to remove that old glue, for sure.
     
  4. Would I just let it soak in that or? It appears to have been taped with scotch tape, lol. Have you ever seen a double die Pence?
     
  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    It is similar to the residues I've seen from old, early cellophane tape, but could also be old mucilage glue.

    I don't know if school kids still use that stuff with construction paper, but when I was a wee lad in elementary school, we had it. It had a red rubber top on the bottle which you'd squish down onto the paper and swirl around to cover the areas you want to glue together.

    [​IMG]


    I found some message board posts about old dolls where someone asked how to remove mucilage. Seems that alcohol, vinegar, and GooGone were some of the recommended solvents, but people had mixed results.

    I think acetone might still be the go-to stuff. Don't know how long you should soak it. I'd try maybe a short dip followed by some Q-tip work, and see how it goes.

    You could also try some really hot water, like from your coffee maker. Since Mucilage is a vegetable-based glue, you might not need a chemical solvent. A good soak in hot water might loosen that stuff up. If it doesn't, try the acetone.

    *Disclaimer- I've never really tried this on this sort of old glue deposit, so take the advice above with a grain of salt. But hot water or acetone ought to be OK.
     
    Michael Sartor likes this.
  6. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan Eclectic & Eccentric Moderator

    As to whether I've seen any doubling on Australian pence, no, but it wouldn't surprise me. I do not know for sure that what you've got here is a doubled die, though, and not a repunched date or something else. I'll let @paddyman98 or someone else chime in on that. It does certainly appear that there is something goin' on there.
     
  7. Thank you marcoven, and i’ll wait for paddy. Glad to catch interest from this one.
     
  8. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    I did a search for the Australia 1925 SIX PENCE and added the key word Doubled Die but I did not see any results. I also tried searching on Numista but they did not show any information for any Doubled Dies in all the years this Pre Decimal Coin was minted.
    If that is a Doubled Die it would be a major Variety. Why it hasn't been reported is interesting. Maybe I just haven't searched enough. Interesting.

    It is a silver coin.. I do see a bit of corrosion on the surface unless it is the residue mentioned.
    And my thinking is that if it were a true Doubled Die the faint digits that are seen should be the same height as the actual Date.
    All clues need to be looked at and thought about carefully in order to make a determination ... I think I'm stumped on this coin.
     
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  9. Well I hope you being stumped is a good thing?? I tried to search it also and couldn’t find anything either, so I came to you all. Should I send this to PCGS or something?
     
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Remove the gunk on it and get better pictures. There is definite doubling at the date but I can't tell if it is doubled die or double struck.
     
  11. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor

    Its odd that the doubling is seemingly limited to the date And the residue. My suspicion was that the 'glue' would form an image and as it dried carried the outline upwards as it appears very distorted /blurred. I think by then the date was part of the original die and not added by hand, but this is not my area. Acetone will not hurt the coin, but I would do water: alcohol: acetone: and then rethink for next solvent Jim
     
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  12. It’d be hard to believe the glue would mimic it perfectly, and there is glue all over, why didn’t everything else end up like that? Doubtful on a glue doubling but possibly
     
  13. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    I will concur that pure solvents should not hurt the coin. Hot water, alcohol and then acetone and some xylene if you have it.
     
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  14. Bambam8778

    Bambam8778 Well-Known Member

    Very interesting indeed! I can't wait to hear the outcome!
     
    Michael Sartor likes this.
  15. I will post an update of it when I clean it up a bit. Fingers crossed
     
  16. JCro57

    JCro57 Making Errors Great Again

    I feel this coin was altered. Here are my reasons why.

    (A) The number "1" in the date on the top appears to be crooked compared the "1" below it. It is "slanted" and not uniform in alignment compared to the other numbers.
    That wouldn't happen if the hub was doubled nor if it was double struck.

    (B) The width of the top and bottom of the "1" is significantly wider for the bottom date than the top "1". To me, it looks like a completely different design.

    Screenshot_2018-11-25-00-09-58~3.png

    (C) The level of wear on the front date does not match the level of wear on other surfaces and lettering. The "overstruck" date relief is higher and sharper than other parts of the coin that are terribly worn. For example, look at the sharpness of the raised date compared to the very worn lettering on "AUSTRAILIA". How is this possible?

    Screenshot_2018-11-25-00-18-08~2.png

    In my opinion, this has been altered by adding a second date after it left the Mint. This was possible to do at the time.
     
  17. rooman9

    rooman9 Lovin Shiny Things

    I don't know of any major doubled dates like that. I'm in the clean it up crowd. Then take some more photos and see.
     
  18. Sorry it took so long to tell you all, but sadly the glue did create a doubling somehow. It was a sad day when I discovered that.
     
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  19. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Thank you very much for letting us know this!.. It's very rare that some folks will do that, get back to us.
    It surely was an interesting looking issue!
     
  20. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    Well...fortunately, the world didn't end, and now that you have cleaned it up with hot water and acetone, would you please take at least one last photo of the date area so we can see your result?

    Please and thank you in advance with a cherry on top...Spark
     
    Michael Sartor likes this.
  21. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    Second that, as well, thanks for following up. I also want to say that even being worn the coin has a very nice design. They really made nice designs back then.

    Proof of that: When creating the American Silver Eagle back in 1985, what did they use...only one of the most popular designs ever made, Walking Liberty.

    And having inherited it from your grandpa, I'm sure it will forever hold a special place in your heart.

    Spark
     
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