Fixing the Third Party Grading (TPG) Problem

Something that I think is scary is something that hasn't been touched upon yet. In this day and age when a reputable TPG sets a grade to a coin they are also setting a "base" value to that coin. With the federal gov't involved I could see the IRS recieving a report on that coin value and a few weeks later you recieve a tax bill based on that coin. You would like to think that they can't tax it until you sell it but unfortunately this is not the case, just ask the gentleman that caught Barry Bond's record breaking ball only to be forced to sell it to pay the IRS tax bill he recieved. In my opinion LESS government is a good thing!

Richard

 

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Such an interesting question and I'll bet back on it more later but...

Grading is subjective so you really can't police it. That's why all the "garbage slabbers" make money.

Education IS the key. Been saying that for a long time. A true collector needs to do the homework.

The government is subjective and corrupt. Gotta agree with Treashunt on this one Bone. Government involved in regulating TPGs in any form? Until when? Lobbyists start seeing money?

Buy the coin not the slab and if you think you did well consider slabbing it by a real company.

I can't see it ever being controlled but can see a lot of slabbers dying. Ebay's move has given a bit of impetus to that IMHO.


On the other hand, as long as "investors" are greedy (and will that ever stop?) new "garbage TPG's will appear to suck them dry of their investment funds.

Tear into my comments if you want guys.

clembo

 

Now THAT is a scary thought.

 

NO government regulation on TPG's or any acpect of this hobby. The gov't would only screw things up for honest collectors, dealers and graders. The only thing the gov't does well is to put OUR coin in THEIR pockets.

Bruce

 

There's nothing to tear into. You just laid out the facts.

 

This isn't necessarily MY IDEA for correcting discrepancies in the process. It's just the first log (idea) on the fire so-to-speak.

Take Care
Ben

 

How do you clean up TPG? - I believe it is as simple as voting with your money. If a coin is correctly graded (and you like the coin), no matter if you like or dislike TPG, buy it for fair value (some coins are to rare to pass up on). A coin that is incorrectly graded will sell low or to someone with the improper knowledge base. If everyone stops buying TPG/incorrectly graded coins, they will go out of business or start grading more conservative.

I have read it hundred times on this forum, buy the coin not the slab. You cannot stop someone from starting a business no matter how unqualified they are. Just don't buy from them.

 

My question was;

and you answered;

The government may be supporting some of it. They may be pointing the direction of some of it. And to some extent they are buying it for their use. However, they are NOT RUNNING IT.

 

I didn't say they run all of it. Saying you run a business doesn't mean you run all businesses. Federal agencies have a unique role, particularly with regard to reviewing and funding health related research that could not be done as well, or at all by any private entity. Also, their role is not limited to setting priorities and funding. The National Institutes of Health, Centers for Disease Control, Food and Drug Administration, and Department of Defense all carry out research also and much of what they do could not or would not be done by private industry.

This discussion started as a comment about whether the government should be involved in regulating TPG's and I took the position that it shouldn't. I'm not saying that government does everything well but it does a lot of things well.

If you're of the opinion that government can't do anything right, then my arguments are unlikely to persuade you.

 

this is only my own opinion...we need to police ourselves. i am an ana member and would like for it to be a true force in the hobby. it has a pitiful 32,000 members. it should be a much more education oriented. it has a handful of courses which need to be updated. the curriculum should be expanded immensely and available for distance education. it should also be a consumer advocate for coin collectors.being a member and especially a member - dealer needs to mean something. they should be held to standards similar to the PNG. the same goes for the use of a tpg. if they can't meet up to proper standards...they get booted.
a collector first starting can learn an immense amount just by coming to this site and reading posts. LEARNING and APPLYING the knowledge available before buying any coin should be a prerequisite for this hobby. this in an of itself, could weed out the bad tpg's and dealers. once you are educated enough not to buy the junk, there would be no money going to these grading services or dealers. no money means they either tighten the standards and try to compete, or to go elsewhere for a fast buck.
we don't need gov't involvement, we just need to get new collectors here or in a vocal hobby club, before ever buying that coin from the tv, back of magazine special, or the incredible ebay bargain. helping each other and keeping newbies from getting burned should be a coin collector standard....once again, just my thoughts...........steve

 

this is a great discussion, very spirited and lively, but the over ridding solution, as always is education.

 

How do you determine a bad TPG, would it be one that overgrades or one that undergrades hoping you will resubmit for a better grade in the future? Or both?

 

Holy Cow, I don't know how I missed this thread !!!

Keep the government out !!! Private enterprise and competition is how improvement takes place, government regulation ruins everything it touches, oh yeah, don't forget about the TPG tax on your coin purchases if that were to happen ( a bit extreme I know but you get the point ).

Government can do NOTHING better than private business

 

There is a TPG tax on any slabbed coin you buy now.

 

GDJSMP..... still not familiar enough w/ this to use quotes.....but in reply...

the ana does offer distance education. i have taken all courses available. they are outdated and more courses need to be offered. it is better than when i took them in 1983, but for an organization dedicated to educating numismatists, they have fallen short of the mark.

as many have said, education will stop the money from flowing to bad tpg's...if no one is interested in a coin slabbed by the grading company, no one will send coins to them for grading. no money coming in would certainly end their business as they are in it for profit.

we will never solve every grading issue, but it does seem most people have accepted pcgs and ngc graders' opinions w/ anacs at one point being 3rd (now, time will tell what happens). it simply goes back to educating a collector and consumer awareness. i want to see the hobby grow and thrive. i don't have an answer for everything, i am merely giving my opinion. i want to see integrity rewarded and would love to see the bad dealers and tpg's disappear. we don't need gov't intervention, just stronger consumer advice and awareness. i believe the ana should be a much stronger force in our hobby.....steve

 

Here's a crazy idea... eliminate TPGs all together. I'm not saying ban and dismantle their services, but vote with your wallet and just start boycotting slabbled coins and grading services. If companies can't get money selling their so-called "professional" opinions they will go out of business or be forced to find a product or service actually worth selling. Just use your own judgement about whether or not a coin is worth your money and quit relying on the opinions of others. Educate yourself in grading. Use your own subjectivity to decide if a coin is in the condition you want and worth what a seller is asking.

I'm game if you are. I already don't buy any slabbed coins, period, and I don't submit any coins to be graded. If the hobby as a whole starts doing this, self-slabbers and fly by night companies, overgraders, will all go away as there's no money in it. If any TPGs survive it will only be the ones that have a solid reputation as being reliable. Or they'll go away too if they see there's no money in it. Either way, a win-win.

People have been collecting coins long before TPGs existed. I say they're totally unnecessary to the hobby. Seriously, why do we need them? Maybe have companies that only authenticate coins and not grade them... that's the only service they provide that I see as necessary. Obsessing about minute differences in grade is why the pricing gets rediculous in the first place. Let the hobby police itself and make its own opinions on what a coin is worth.

Anyone with me? I can't be the only person who thinks this way, even here.

 

People have been collecting long before the internet also. The internet is not necessary for collecting either, but it is the biggest reason for the boom lately. And, like it or not, TPG's and the internet pretty much feed each other.

 

I'm with you.

I'm a neophyte coin collector but have a lot of collecting experience. I've also made a living in the business world for the last twenty years mostly as a purchasing agent. Through the years I've learned a lot about business. My honest opinion. TPG's are necessary in the current marketplace for dealers to make money selling coins on the internet. For a collector, unless you are going to buy high priced coins from somebody you don't know, they are useless. If you buy coins through the internet or any other means without having a personal relationship with the seller, I wish you luck. Caveat Emptor.

Andy