Gassing coins -AT

FYI, you can open up slabs and take out a coin, reinsert it (after gassing) and close it. Just don't use a hammer .. you do have to be much more precise and careful.

Granted I've only tried it on a few slabs as a test (not gassing, just opening it) and not all slab makes out there so YMMV.

 

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You don't have to open up a slab to gas it. In a chamber , even with a small vacuum pump you can draw the air out of the slab, insert your gas mix through a port and release it into the chamber and region of the coin, it will be drawn into the slab,then use your technique, Simple science.

 

Definitely. It shows on some of the examples of a very small air flow over the surface of that exact process.

I was just saying that one can open a slab and do anything to the coin then reinsert it if done carefully enough.

 

I understand. Many if not most of the harshly toned "Bar Toners" were done out of the slab ( IMO) with a too strong gas stream intended for mass production ( such as Bullion eagles),
The "in the slab : method does diffuse the entry/exit , and thus but does takes longer. These are more likely to pass the average collector. IMO Jim

 

"Paddy54, post: 3231515, member: 19250"
Either you like toned coins or you don't and it's ok either way. The same for buying raw vs graded coins.

I'm one of the oddballs, I guess. I don't like toned coins, and don't like slabbed either. I have the utmost respect for those of you that do, and, of course I want a coin to be the real thing, but being in a slab doesn't do anything for me. I want to be more, "up close, and personal", lol. JMHO. I, also, am thrilled for you that are able to buy the best of the best, and save them for the enjoyment of future generations. But for my meager collection, I am happy with a coin as long as you can tell it clearly is the coin it is supposed to be. i.e., I would rather have a complete collection of Lincoln Cents, graded "Good", than to have one slabbed 1909 - SVDB in MS 67. Again, JMO. Well, and my budget, or lack of one, also lends a tremendous amount toward this way of thinking. If I couldn't build my collection "one piece at a time", I would still be saving for my one coin collection.

 

Have you seen any of them in hand? Because you are calling mostly proof coins with TruView pictures AT. IMO, that is a fool's errand. Phil can make a mundane mint state toner look AT.

 

I don't like toned coins either.
Sooner or later the metal surface will get damaged beyond conservation and turn black.

Some of the colors do get pretty. They should be considered "fantasy" pieces if you ask me. lol

 

Mine is the exact opposite of your ethos. I eschew filling holes for the search for the truly high quality.

 

So can creative lighting, in BOTH directions.

 

Jumping Jack Flash...it's a gas.

 

Bowers does not share your paranoia about AT coins. If you have a quote from him then post it. For now, I will post two quotes on the subject from his The Expert's Guide to Collecting & Investing IN RARE COINS.

This quote clearly shows that Bowers is aware that coins can develop rainbow toning worthy of a premium naturally and even describes the storage methods that cause such an effect. He goes on to discuss artificial toning in the following paragraph.

They key sentences are the last two highlighted in blue. Everyone understands that there are AT and NT coins out there. You seem to be of the opinion that any rainbow toned coin (other than Morgans) fall into the AT category. Bowers and the rest of us recognize that NT coins exist across all series, that they are indeed worthy of premium prices, and that what is important is separating AT from NT. In the second to last sentence he advises that before purchasing a rainbow toned coin to have it reviewed by someone you trust. I submit to you that the TPGs fall into that category.


As for your snarky comment about my inventory, why don't you take a look at it. I currently have 22 coins for sale and I have only described 4 of the 22 as rainbow toned. Of those 4, only one (the Appalachian Jefferson) could ever be credibly accused of being questionably toned. That said, you should definitely believe Bowers over me, but in this instance, you need to recognize that Bowers and I are saying the same thing.

 

I’ve seen plenty with the same look in hand. Some I’ve also seen sold raw by eBay sellers who described the coins as heat toned and then they ended up in slabs with straight grades.

Plus all we have are images and everyone claims TruViews to be the best of the best.

It appears you keep wanting to move the goalposts. You start by saying it’s rare to find AT in slabs. Then you move to exclude ASEs. Next we exclude TruViews. Pretty soon we’ll just be focusing on coins seen at the rural auctions Kurt attends and magically conclude that toners don’t exist at all.

 

Would that be gaslighting, then?

 

This is patently false. The majority of my coin purchases have come from Heritage Auctions who hold 6 major coin shows per year. In fact, I have bought so many coins from Heritage that I am a Legacy Client.

The reason you don't see rainbow toners on the bourse floor is because they are RARE, and unless the dealer specializes in toned coinage, it will be hard to find them. You ask why do sellers of these coins sell on the internet, here is your answer.

I just completed an E-Bay search of all US Coins: 1,073,217 Results
Then I typed in Rainbow: 5,661 Results
Then I typed in NGC: 1,358 Results
Then I typed in Nickel: 82 Results
Then I typed in Jefferson: 57 Results.

So when I'm looking for one of 57 coins out of over 1 million, I guess it will be easier for me to find them then scouring the bourse floor for hours. There is no conspiracy here, just common sense.

 

If you buy on E-Bay, and you don't like the coin, RETURN IT!

99% of my purchases have been online as well and I concur. Most of my problems on E-Bay have been as a seller, not a buyer.

Any dealer that uses the Internet as a dumping ground instead of a revenue stream is costing themselves money. As a customer, I suppose that is good for you since it means you can probably exploit their ignorance in other ways as well.

Exactly!

Again, if you only buy from sellers with a return policy, you mitigate the financial risk and are basically conducting a transaction "on approval".

The only real danger is buying sight unseen from auctions because they don't have returns. And IMO, Stacks Bowers photos are pretty bad and don't accurately reflect the actual appearance of the coin. Heritage photos are much better, which is why I am a Heritage customer, I know how to interpret their photos.

 

And I truly am glad there are collectors like you. I really enjoy looking at the high end coins posted here. I just don't have a "budget", and can't commit to one. I buy some and trade some, and it's all small time, but I couldn't imagine having more fun.

 

Nobody is moving goalposts dude, so knock that crap off unless you wanna start something.

I excluded ASEs because Kurt excluded Morgans which is where the majority of NT coins come from. I never said we were excluding TruViews, all I said is that they don't accurately reflect the actual appearance of the coin. Are you saying I'm wrong?

It is my position that it is hard to find AT coins in TPG plastic. If I am wrong, the new thread will be long, it's that simple.

 

Wow someone sure is fiery. Apparently when you don’t like something you’re willing to “start something”? If all can’t be convinced let’s just move towards violence? Got it.

No amount of evidence will convince you. We would need PCGS and CAC to issue a joint televised statement before there would even be a chance. There will always be a way out: Eagles don’t count because Kurt doesn’t count Morgans (why exclude either just because of Kurt?), TruViews are too good (sure they can be but the “market” accepts the photos), only the toner bashers replying to your other thread, market grading, etc...

 

I'm fiery because I have been debating people on this forum for years and nobody ever has accused me of "moving the goalposts." And "start something" doesn't have anything to do with violence, it simply means I won't pull any punches within the debate.

How do you know what my threshold is for changing my mind. If that new thread pops off and there are hundreds of examples of AT coins in TPG plastic, I would absolutely change my mind. But I don't think that is going to happen, and since you are here making excuses about the coins excluded, my guess is that you already know how its going to turn out for you.

Furthermore, I didn't exclude Morgans or ASEs for that thread, I simply decided not to award them points. But you keeping crying about me "moving the goalposts"

Regarding TruViews, the market doesn't accept them, the customers don't really have a choice. That is how PCGS decides to photograph their coins then so be it. They choose to make their photos look pretty rather than convey the actual appearance of the coin, especially with proofs. If an E-Bay seller had done that, we would bashing them for their deceptiveness, but since the PCGS photos seem to serve your current narrative, you have decided to defend them. Its a shame that you sell out your principles in order to win an online debate.

 

I’m not defending PCGS at all (notice the quotes), and I’m not the one selling out my principles to defend PCGS (while a few posters we all know do). I’m using what is available and what is accepted. It’s funny how people like you and baseball stand up for them every time when it’s convenient but suddenly when PCGS’s own photos can be used against them it’s time to attack the principles of the poster.

And I’m not making excuses; I’m relaying the excuses you’ve already offered. I never told you what to include or exclude. Your thread could reach 100s of examples but we will only know (at the earliest) after 100 days based on your restrictions of one coin per 24 hours. That was actually quite clever.