My 1909 VDB Matte Proof From Die Pair 2

This coin is pretty interesting, it’s my 1909 VDB matte proof from the second die pair of matte proof Lincoln cents. A lot of people will disagree and say it’s not from the authenticated die pair, but there is a second matte proof Lincoln die pair. A lot of my information is from an article on the PCGS website about the second die pair. I’m not sure if the link will work but here it is
https://www.pcgs.com/news/1909-matte-proof-new-coin-die-discovered

The most important information in that article is the list of die markers for this coin, but it also shows evidence of these proof coins existing even though they are not the known die pair of matte proof VDB cents.

Here is my coin



And here is the list of die markers


Here is liberty. The MS67+ 1909 VDB cents all share the same doubling on LIBERTY when they are actually a matte proof that was wrongly graded because it didn’t have the die markers that are known.

And here are the other LIBERTY devices on matte proofs from this die pair that are graded as mint state because of not having the known die pair markers. These matte proofs share this doubling


They also all have prominent lathe lines on the underside of Lincoln’s bust


The reverse die markers are very strong.

Die scratch from M of UNUM going left to field


This is a die scratch in the C of CENT


Doubling in UNITED


And of course the die chip at 3 o’clock


I’ll hopefully get it graded as a proof soon. I hope!

 

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Good luck!

 

thats a very nice cent sir.

 

Hmm. I just spent several minutes going through the list of obverse die markers and comparing them against your photo, and I couldn't see a single one. If they're all as faint as the ones in your magnified images, though, a photo with the resolution of your obverse shot wouldn't show them anyhow.

Good luck, but to me those marks are "down in the noise" -- there's enough random clutter at that magnification that I could convince myself I'm seeing just about anything.

 

Looks nice, but I see some rim weakness at 11:00 on obv and 2:00 to 4:00 on rev.

 

You’re right, I’ll get better pictures of the obverse markers. I don’t think the doubling in Liberty is a solid obverse marker because none VDB and VDB cents share this obverse die, or perhaps master hub. I’m continuing my research and I’ll get the better pics of the obverse markers

The rims are strong all the way around it’s just the lighting in the 2 pictures

 

The 2nd die pair you are referring to is for the 1909 MPL not the 1909 VDB MPL.

There is only one die pair for the VDB.

The 1909 VDB and 1909 did share the same obverse, but not the reverse.

By the time the second obverse die came in to use for the 1909 the 1909 VDB had long been out of production.

 

All known 1909 VDB proofs show the dot between the D and B centered. Yours is closer to the D, which indicates a business strike VDB.

Proof


Business strike




The Die chip you showed at 3 o'clock, between the M and the wheat stalk isn't the die chip they are talking about on the VDB proof. The real one is more of a crescent shape and all and only VDB proofs have this.

 

The OP's coin is very nice, but I have to agree with Bob about the diagnostics.

 

One more diagnostic mentioned here was the diagonal die scratch found in the C of CENT is not found on the VDB proof.

 

Die scratch from M of UNUM going left to field.

This is a die scratch in the C of CENT.

And of course the die chip at 3 o’clock.

It is not the correct shape and it looks more like 2 o'clock to me. Check out an actual clock.

IMHO, these are not diagnostic of anything! They are found on the vast majority of this date so are more likely "marks" on the hub.

 

There is some incomplete research in this post, I’ve done better research and I’ll compile it for a better post. Yes this proof die pair went into business strike production, and so there will be business strike examples. The die chip was my mistake that might not be a die chip on my coin and it’s not even at 3 o’clock haha. I’ll compile my evidence better, but some of you seem confused on my point, my point is that there are proof VDB coins from this die pair, and that this coin is one of them. I just have to show the evidence of there being proof and business strikes from this die pair, but because of the low amount of proofs, it’s hard to look into.

 

If you are that sure of the coin, send it to PCGS. Without them calling it a proof, you have an MS coin.

 

Even with them calling it a proof, one might have an MS coin as we recall from one certain thread.

 

Good point. I wonder if PCGS ever got that one back.

 

I don't think so. That poster was very proud of the coin and was saying he wouldn't give it up for any amount of money.

 

Perhaps I missed it, but where did you get the coin?

 

This coin was in my Dansco 7070 I put it in there a couple years ago and just recently looked at it. I have a coin coming in the mail that is a better example of this coin, I will post pictures and more accurate information soon.

 

The article you posted is for the 1909 Matte Proof, not the 1909 VDB Matte Proof. To my knowledge, there is still only one confirmed die pair for the 1909 VDB Matte Proof. Sorry.

The edge also looks beveled. A proof coin will have a perfectly-flat edge.

 

That does change some things, I didn’t see it was for none VDBs, I’ll continue my research