Overdepending on the graysheet

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Dimedude2, Oct 27, 2018.

  1. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    I was at a show and saw some great coins, both pcgs ms 65 coins and both were excellent examples for this grade. One was a SLQ that had a graysheet price of $355 but he wanted $500. For a different dealer, there was an Indian Head BN that that had a graysheet price of $80 but he wanted $200. Really nice coins, but after some web searching of comparable sales I decided to pass.

    I wonder if I need a reality check. Are the gray sheet prices that far out of whack? I don't expect to pay graysheet price consistently but I thought those prices were steep.
     
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  3. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    I’d be more likely to believe that the coin show prices were out of whack. Or if the coins were truly exceptional for the grade, or the dealers thought they were, they could have been holding out for the right buyer.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  4. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Without knowing what it was it's impossible to say, but you said they were excellent examples and premium examples generally can't be bought for greysheet prices without getting lucky.
     
    C-B-D and ldhair like this.
  5. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I agree with baseball21. Great looking coins can bring crazy prices. Coins with nice pretty toning can bring several times sheet prices. Many dealers will pay a strong price and mark it up from there. Someone will come along, fall in love with the coin and pay the price.
     
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  6. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Sometimes greysheet errs in the other direction. For example, 1850 half cents are super hot right now. At the last show I was at, dealers were selling VFs around greysheet, which I believe was $140, but on eBay, they routinely sell for $240 or more.
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  7. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    I thought Graysheet values were dealer-to-dealer prices.
    If so, retail would be higher.

    But my experiences with the Graysheet were from before ownership changed.
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  8. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but it is available to everyone, so collectors use them a lot as well.
     
  9. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    It's not available to me anymore.
    The new subscription cost stopped me dead.
     
    One Mans Trash likes this.
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    They used to be but they are not anymore. Today, they are largely like any other price guide. And in my opinion at least, just about as worthless for that reason.

    But I will add this. The general concept of really nice coins selling for more, or even multiples in some cases, of what similarly graded coins sell for - is correct. If you want true quality you have to be prepared to pay up for it. But, there are also many examples of some dealers simply asking too much. And when they do then ya need to walk away.
     
    Dimedude2, Two Dogs, jafo50 and 3 others like this.
  11. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    Thank you for your expertise and feedback!
     
  12. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Many different factors could be at play here. Incorrect CDN, Overly nice example for the grade, sudden upturn in market trends, crazy dealers, etc. Did you try to haggle at all?
     
  13. NumisNinja

    NumisNinja Active Member

    Ask the dealer why they are charging double for what that grade of coin goes for elsewhere. They might actually have a legitimate reason; i.e. variety, error, toning/color, rarity, etc.

    I had a dealer asking way too much so and I showed him the ebay listing of the same grade selling way less. He said the buyer on that auction just got a really lucky deal. I then knew he was just overcharging because that coin routinely goes for less and he simply didn't want to acknowledge the fair market price because he was hoping uninformed folks would pay more.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I was once scammed out of $100 on a $25 note because I trusted the dealer’s pricing. Never EVER blindly trust a dealer.
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  15. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    No, the gray sheet is what most dealers go by. What is high is the show prices. Some dealers ask more and are willing to come down as a "show discount". I do a lot of antiques and at shows the prices are always higher than in an antique shop.

    Remember, dealers at coin shows come from all over and their market area at home may allow them to get these prices.

    I too have passed on several coins that were $200 over the grey sheet.
     
  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    A good number just don't care since you're likely a one off customer they won't see again when they're out of their area. Obviously that doesn't really apply to large national dealers but for many it does
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  17. NumisNinja

    NumisNinja Active Member

    It's hard enough to sell coins at grey sheet prices without a buyer still trying to talk you down. I don't know how a dealer would make many sales if he's charging way over. Most coin buyers at shows you'd think are fairly informed.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  18. SlipperySocks

    SlipperySocks Well-Known Member

    Dealers at the show by me this weekend were using the grey sheet and Red Book for prices. Granted all of them are small time locals but I have heard a lot of grumbling about the cost of the grey sheet being absurdly high now. But there is always a guy who is 25% higher then everybody else at the show.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  19. Dimedude2

    Dimedude2 Member

    these samples were actually beautiful. Definitely on the higher end of the 65 grade. I did some research just for my sanity and it did not make sense to go for it. I also talked to my wife who is full of wisdom. If the ms65 indian head gray sheet was $80 and I bought the coin for $200, how much would I get from a dealer if I sold it, no matter how great the coin was? I would guarantee no more than $100 and I think I would be lucky.

    The difference was so off I decided not to haggle; I thought it was not worth it. Then again, I may be off here. I punted to wait for another day.
     
    Two Dogs likes this.
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It is not at all uncommon for one dealer to be asking as much as double, or anyplace in between, what another dealer is asking for any given coin.

    Sometimes this is because the one guy overpaid, or sometimes because the other guy got a great deal. And sometimes it's just because that's the way the expensive guy does business. And sometimes it's simply because the coins, though graded the same, are not equal - one is much nice than the others.

    The point is, dealer asking prices are almost always all over the map for any given coin - even the most common ones.
     
    SlipperySocks likes this.
  21. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Well said.
     
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