1958 Franklin Half Dollar PCGS MS67+ FB CAC sells for $110k at auction

Sometimes I really don't understand this hobby.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

In general, the 1956 (type 2) is one of the more common Franklins with cameo contrast. Outside of 1962 and 1963, it was one of the few years where the US Mint was quite successful in producing cameo Franklins.

 

As @physics-fan3.14 mentioned, while extreme, this coin is consistent with toners that have come from mint sets. It certainly doesn't scream AT. Now the grade does seem generous (especially since it used to be in a 66+ holder and allegedly a 66 holder before that). And the price was high. Will the seller ever recoup the money? The odds might say no, but you never know who might be after a top-pop toner in the future. If two wealthy collectors get into a bidding war, it could go even higher.

 

Kurt Vonnegut once hypothesized that modern art was a conspiracy between artists and rich people to make common people feel stupid. That is, the ridiculous money offered for splashes of paint on a canvas was a joke and the wonderment of the common folks was the punchline.

When it comes to the valuation on artwork there is a point where show and ego take something well past the real value of the item. Go ahead and crack that coin out of the case, take it to numerous local dealers and get your best offer. Would you even break $1,000.00? That is the actual value of the coin right there - the pomp and circumstance that surrounds millionaires and questionably graded coins in slabs is all well and good but has no connection to the actual value of a coin.

The auction was 110K realized for ego and appearances.
It had little to do with the actual coin.

Am I new to the hobby and speaking out of turn?
Perhaps, but I find that scams are pretty common across the board.
This was likely nonsense to raise the standing of PCGS during a time of crisis.

 

False. This had EVERYTHING to do with the coin. Multiple collectors saw a beautiful piece and really went for it. Would I have paid that much, no I wouldn't have but my opinion is irrelevant as I couldn't have afforded it anyway nor have I seen it in hand. What I do know is that PCGS/CAC overrides chat forum grading opinions that are doing so based off of a picture. I also know that people don't spend 100k without strongly considering what they are doing. Those buyers recognized a special piece and went for it.

Completely ridiculous baseless accusation which happens FAR to often on coin forums. Things like this are one of the biggest reason why I am completely souring on coin forums in general as far to many people throw out accusations with no proof just because they can't understand something or other collectors do something they wouldn't have.

 

I don't care what millionaires do with their money; however, basing 'value' on how they handle their money isn't a terribly reliable way for common people to gauge our expectations and it is a silly way to establish the value of a coin. (1)

To get 110K for a stepped on Fake Peace Dollar all you have to do is get two people with way too much money to start a fight over it. Toss in some ego, and little glitter, and BOOM.

Do you remember this guy?



That is Any Warhol and he was an absolute master of making stupid stuff like this appear valuable:



Idiotic pictures in grotesque colors aren't really worth millions of dollars - because if you think they are worth that I can show you entire warehouses of this garbage that are for sale for pennies - literally pennies. The Andy Warhol crap goes for the big bucks because it isn't just the picture but the mystic/marketing/hype that adds value (for people who value that). With a Warhol painting you're getting a $5 painting with millions of marketing BS and a dealer who will affirm your purchase is a good idea.

If you really think that Half is worth 110K then if you owned it would you break it out of it's capsule and offer it to dealers at a show? How much would you expect to get? The figure that just appeared in your mind is closer to the truth than this 110K nonsense. Again, if people want to spend 110K on hype that is their business and not mine.

Hype is fine, mind you, I just don't have the cash to pay for it.

I'm guessing there and not making an accusation.
My guesses are based on the behavior I've seen from other hype machines.
It is good business, if you're into that sort of thing.



NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------
1: Again, I'd like to make clear that how people choose to spend their money is their business. I'm not even critical of the person who bought this coin - hey, at least they aren't hurting anyone with the funds.

 

I just checked my spreadsheet and found that I paid $14 each for '58 and '58D Franklins. They look to be somewhere between AU+++ and BU; don't care much for letting MS grades effect my numismatic neuroses, though. $100K for a coin? Absurd... even if I had Jeff Bezos' money.

 

The auction claims there's no flaws on this coin, but the enlarged OP photo shows that's not true.
Auction estimate I think said $15,000 which still seems high. It's a non rare modern coin.

 

I love Franklins and have a great set, but this 58 is not my favorite type of toning and agree it's over graded a bit...probably a 67 in reality but a + was given for the toning...all Franklins are baggy with no exceptions known. There are no 68s in the series. The price of this finest known piece is probably justified for the person with no limit on budget, but the price guide is $1200.00 for this coin! It sold for nearly 100x it's latest value, a complete shock to the numismatic community and to Legend Auctions.

 

I see. I didnt know that. Wish it was a type 1 though

 

Far to many people just say whatever they want without having any real understanding because they saw a picture. Evan8 described the situation very well in his first post.

Art is completely irrelevant to coins. Artists are what makes art valuable and it's always been that way. The $10 mil SP dollar would have been over a hundred mil easy if it was art. Art is a completely different market.

You could break out any coin and you would get significantly lower dealer offers that's not evidence of anything. Despite what some others say on here CAC also matters a lot at the high end so of course it would sell for less from some dealer if it was raw. They wouldn't hesitate though to try and resell it for big bucks.

They're publicly traded, show me a single financial report showing they ran up their own coins for publicity. You can't

It absolutely is rare in that condition and that toning. If its not rare please show us the multiple examples you can easily find of the same quality

Most likely. They use the + for eye appeal

 

Easy now. A ton of people love Warhol. It's more his history that makes his pieces valuable. I have a Warhol piece that needs verification but the only place that will do it now is the Warhol museum in Pittsburgh. Plus art is completley different from coins. It's a much larger market and way more millionaires to buy it.

 

I'm suspicious of the toning too.

Those roundish lighter-coloured spots make me think that liquid was involved.

 

My understanding based on other posts is this:
Grading guides put the coin at $1200.00.
Auction estimate was $15,000.00

It is okay with me if you deny that hype/too much money/ego pushed a coin to 100X its book value. I don't even care if you believe that coin is intrinsically worth that amount of money based on it being a conditional rarity.

I think the utter hesitation to remove the coin from the slab proves that the slab is what was purchased here, and not the coin - anytime someone wants to prove otherwise all they have to do is take it out of the capsule.

Any takers?
Didn't think so.

You're smart enough to recognize the impact that hype and too much money will have on an auction price. I don't need to lecture you on it. You've criticized those hype artists on the Shopping Network, haven't you? Same game, they're just the trailer park version.

So yes, you get the concept.
Good Day.

 

Price guides are irrelevant on the best stuff. That is something that most buyers take a long time to realize if they ever do.

EVERY single high end USA CAC coin would go for less raw and that's true from the 10 million dollar coin down to five figure coins. PCGS CAC matters a lot at the high end, the fact that they would sell for less raw means nothing

When things go that far over expectations, they do so for a reason and it isn't hype

 

This coin has more dings than a manhole cover! $110 grand? Now way. That kind of money would buy me a BEAUTIFUL 1916 SLQ

 

Overgraded by AT LEAST 1 full point.
Color shouldn’t add multiple points.
It is a pretty coin. If it were raw, I wouldn’t pay more than $250

 

So the guys that put an estimate of $15,000 on this were just stupid and completely out of touch with the high end coin market? Clearly this particular auction caught a lot of knowledgeable people off guard.

If the value on this coin was so obvious its selling price probably wouldn't be a news item. It is the oddball, the exceptional things that make the news.

I'm not a TPG hater (or a CAC hater) by any means; however, I think you've downplayed the situation in this case. Of course slabbed and CAC coins get a premium but we're talking about a 100X premium here and that is something altogether different.

What you're claiming here is this: For people to realize that a $250.00 coin is actually a $110,000.00 coin it must be in a slab.

To me that seems a bit crazy.

There is nothing wrong with hype - of getting caught up in the moment - of enjoying the bright lights and media attention - of beating out another millionaire for a slabbed coin. That literally isn't wrong.

To deny hype played into this is an odd way to go.

Again, just crack it out of the slab and let me know what would expect to get for the coin. That pretty much ends the debate, IMHO. Present the same coin in a SEGs slab - or submit it to PCGS in a SEGs slab for regrading and see what you get.

Nothing wrong with slabs, or paying a premium for those coins, or even paying too much for a Franklin Half. In my very limited understanding of coin collecting I'm just not willing to pretend that this auction was something that it wasn't.

Our culture is full of parables about peer pressure or con-men hyping straw as gold and the like because our culture is full of that type of behavior. This looks to be an example of that to me.

 

One thing this thread has really driven home for me is the need to develop your own standards for grading, to only use a slab as a starting point, and to become familiar with the actual population of condition rarities. Very interesting.