Teletrade ?????

Something bothers me lately about Teletrade. I've looked at a few auctions that started out at what seemed to be a reasonable price. Then , a few hours later the auction price jumped up to above what I was willing to pay. A few days later , after the auctions were finished I looked back at the lots and they show as " not sold " . Something looks real fishy here. Any ideas.

 

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Yeah, don't confuse Teletrade for an auction house.
They are a well-disguised retail operation as far as I'm concerned.
They have a "automated bid" which will slowly increase the amount bid until it hits some magical reserve, often very high, hoping to lure someone into thinking someone else is bidding.
Shady as heck if you ask me.

 

No, you are misunderstanding me.
What happens is the "last bid" automatically increases without anyone actually making a bid.
Essentially a "hidden reserve" with "automatic bid increments" being made without a bidder.

Say there is a coin with a current bid of $20. You bid $25. A few minutes later, the "house" increases the bid to $30, without anyone bidding that amount. A little later it goes to $35, again without anyone placing a bid. The auction closes at $35, looks like it sold, only to have the coin go back to "not sold" status.

Basically an automated shill working for the house.

Clear?

 

I hear of many shady things happening in "traditional" auction houses too. Bidders bidding against a lamp post or the ceiling, as the auctioneer just keeps the bid going in the fervor.

 

I agree, but this thread wasn't about them.

 

I have and it does, and I'm not the only person to have seen such a thing or comment on it. Respectfully...Mike

 

Here are a few threads which discuss this issue:

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...ght_key=y&keyword1=teletrade&keyword2=reserve

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...ght_key=y&keyword1=teletrade&keyword2=reserve

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...light_key=y&keyword1=teletrade&keyword2=shill

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...light_key=y&keyword1=teletrade&keyword2=shill

There are many more...MIke

 

All that said, as long as you only bid as much as you are comfortable with, and go into the auction understanding their return policies (and fees), then you'll be OK. They will send the coin, they will take returns (along with their restocking fees), but the way in which they "trick" buyers into thinking there is action on the coin is shady at best, IMO...Mike

 

well me and brothe rleadfoot are on the same page here

 

I'm a little confused, how can anyone say with any degree of certainty that there is NOT someone else actually bidding against you (especially the way Teletrade is set up)?

Not leaning one way or the other on this one, just asking.

 

Another thread, as recently as today on this very topic:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=631237

Consign a coin yourself and watch the auction. Watch the bids "happen" up to your reserve, then the coin not sell...Mike

 

Again, there's nothing wrong with buying or selling on Teletrade. The way their reserve/bidding works is shady in my opinion, that is all. The smart Teletrade buyer notes the coins he's interested in, prepares his highest maxium bid early, and bids it in the last minute of the auction. The smart Teletrade seller calculates and knows the value of his coins beforehand and calculates his reserve accordingly. All IMHO.

 

so you dont think of the false bids as a problem of ethics?

 

Personally, yes. However, the market (or should I say the auction houses, and to a lesser extent most sellers) disagree, as Teletrade isn't even in the minority when it comes to bidding against "the house" and not revealing reserves.

Again, my opinion only: Ethics are a difficult issue to discuss -- particularly when everyone is really just looking out for their own best interest. In my opinion, these things should be transparent, and Teletrade is anything but transparent....Mike

 

so tell me Mike why would you do business with someone if you thought they were being unethical. i am not trying to slam you just trying to understand your reasoning. thanks.

 

That's a good question, and if your point is that I shouldn't encourage their unethical behavior, you have a good one...

However, I do business with lots of people I think are unethical. As long as their unethical behavior is consistently unetical, i.e. predictable, and they are otherwise up-front, I see no problem in it.

I don't believe our tax system is ethical either, but I have to participate if I want to be free. Same for coins. I have no problem with purchasing from those I view as unethical, as long as their unetical behavior doesn't compromise my ability to get what I want (i.e. I can factor it in), I kind of look the other way.

But you do have a good point that we should vote with our pocketbooks when it comes to ethical behavior, and I should do a better job of that. However my need/want for a cool coin often overcomes the ethical hurdles I put in the way. What can I say -- I'm a sucker for a cool coin...Mike

p.s. I bought one coin from teletrade all of last year, and it was a very small percentage value-wise of my yearly acquisitions (the majority going to two dealers I consider among the MOST ethical around, Mark Feld and Dave Wnuck) so in a sense I am voting, come to think of (rationalize) it :

 

I don't know if it's just me, but I never got the point of a "reserve price" anyway. If there's some minimum amount of money, below which you wouldn't want to sell it, why not just make the opening bid amount that price? I understand that some want it to start low to get initial interest, but if the bidding can't get to your minimum price, I don't see what difference it makes to just make the opening bid your reserve price.