What is the purpose of CAC?

I'm a big Aficionado of what Paul says, but he's way off base with this one. He's a coin 'snob' and most of us on these boards are salt of the earth collectors.

 

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That was why originally PCGS and NGC would only accept submissions from authorized dealers. The whole idea was for collectors to submit through the dealers so the dealers could weed out the material that wasn't worthy of submitting. But the collectors kept demanding to be allowed to submit directly and finally the TPG's agreed. So now the collectors pay for the unworthy material they submit.

There is nothing to stop them, and I', surprised it hasn't become common place. I'm only aware of one case of a fake CAC sticker. It's bound to be coming eventually though.

They do still guarantee their work, with some exceptions. They do specifically guarantee authenticity (It took us 20 years to get them to do that), PCGS guarantees their attributions, NGC does not, PCGS does not guarantee the color of copper coins, NGC will for ten years after holdering. Both have a major loophole in their guarantees, they don't pay off for "mechanical errors" which are defined as being anything where if you look at the coin and the label and the label is "obviously" wrong. There is a lot of wiggle room in that. Since they are paying out they may decide something is "obvious" that we wouldn't, or which was an actual error on their part. They also will not guarantee compensation is a coin "goes bad" in the holder after it was slabbed.

They do have a file of submitted but not stickered coins, but it is not public.

CAC doesn't charge for coins they don't sticker.

 

It is hogwash because you refer to the entire coin industry as a racket, as if the entire thing is tainted and evil. It is a market, plain and simple. The TPGs provide a service that IMO, eliminated the entire coin racket. I'm referring to the days when dealers would call every coin they buy AU, and sell them as GEM BU, fleecing everyone who didn't take the time to educate themselves. Seriously, when I read your post, I couldn't tell if the entire post was a joke. At least now I know.

 

I wouldn't say snob, but I do have some experience in the deep end of the pool. These days though, my collecting is limited to Presidential Dollars and a Jefferson Dansco.

Whenever a CAC thread pops up and the CAC gets bashed, I always wonder how many of the bashers have both purchased and sold coins valued at $5K+. At that level, the financial benefits and added liquidity of CAC certification are undeniable.

 

Thank you, that gives me something to go on, at least.

I actually agree with you on many things. For one, I think that the TPGs provide a valuable service - I own many slabbed coins - but I don't think that they have eliminated the coin racket by any means. Though I really enjoy buying coins, researching them, posting about them on this forum, etc., I still think that the entire hobby is a racket, one that I enjoy, but I wouldn't go so far to say that it is "tainted and evil." If I thought that I wouldn't bother with it at all.

Here is why I think that: I'm fairly confident that if I buy an MS61 coin for $115 I will likely never be able to sell it for that amount or more. When I buy a numismatic item I openly accept that I'm very likely making a poor investment because the chances of getting my money back are slim. Not impossible, but slim. More than a few dealers have told me outright that for raw coins they buy a grade low and sell a grade high. That's how they make money. I know that not every dealer does this. Slabs seem to get premiums added on, higher or lower, based on eye appeal and other factors tangential to the displayed grade. So the TPG grade alone doesn't set the selling or buying price. Some MS61s are less appealing than others. I get it, it's business, but it still sounds like a racket to me. I accept my part in this racket because I enjoy it. Not only that, I help keep it going by accepting that I'm likely losing money on every purchase. This realization tames my spending and my losses and has kept me from spending even more money on this pursuit. I doubt that I will ever stop even though I acknowledge everything above.

I did not consider any of your posts a joke - I just thought that you needed to back up your "hogwash," which is a term that I actually enjoy. There is a lot of hogwash in the world, after all. And if we don't agree in the end, well, that's fine too. The world needs diversity. There's more than enough room on the forum for both of us, hogwash or not.

Now I'm back to the racket...

 

And I just saved this photo. Excellent!

 

Absolutely no businesses, for profit or non-profit, have collector's interests at heart. If collector's interests align with them, fine, but businesses are such that they have their own interests at heart.

 

I disagree with this. The best dealers know that they will be the most successful if they have their customer's interests at hear. I have had dealers talk me out of more expensive coins because they wouldn't have been as good for my set or my collection. Sure, they would have made more money on the first sale - but by helping me build the best set I could, they ensured that I kept coming back. There's no reason that they can't have both interests at heart.

 

That kind of action is one that has their own interests at heart, i.e., not to get known as a dealer who have customers who may be long term and to not take advantage when acting in what they perceive as the customer's best interest. This is what is an example of their business happening to also align with the customer's best interest. But it truly, IMO, is more of a part of figuring out what is best for the business rather than what is best for the customer.

 

They should put black beans on the coins sent to CAC that they think don't make the given grade. lol

 

Please share why you think CAC needs to be stickering new things to make money?

Do you honestly think that their business plan is to make money by not charging collectors for coins that don't sticker?

Do you honestly think they have to sticker things to stay in business?

How much actual experience do you have with CAC personally?

Post that statement on the CU forum if you really believe it

 

I think some people are under the mis-conception that CAC's business is stickering coins.

It is not.

CAC is an approval service which makes a market in their stickered coins. They make a lot more money buying and then selling CAC-stickered coins than they ever will from the sticker service. The sticker service is just there so that they can preview coins that they may want to buy.

CAC makes its money by making a market for CAC-stickered coins.

 

How much experience do you have with CAC personally? Seems easy enough to answer.

I would also love to know why you say things like "It's quite simple, if they don't hand out enough stickers then the coins will stop coming in." for why you think that is important?

 

I agree with this. The best dealers do look out for the collector. There is a coin business in NH that I’ve only dealt with twice, but I respect a lot.
Both times I had coins submitted to NGC through them and both times they talked me out of submitting at least one of the coins I originally wanted to submit.
They didnt think the coins would achieve the grade I hoped for or expected.
Even though it would have made them a few extra bucks per coin, it was more important to them to save me the submission fees and to educate me on why the coins would grade the way they thought they would.

 

People with no experience with CAC are always the most misinformed.

People with 0 experience in an area would often times be better off not making comments.

So you think they need coins to be sent to them still to make money?

Why is it so hard to answer a question on how much experience you have with them?