I found these 2 tetradrachms for sale, one is from Philip I Philadelphus en one is from Ptolemy, I am especially interested in the Ptolemy one because it looks really nice. On my own eye the coins look authentic, the coin is detailed (and not smooth) and also I see signs of corrosion/oxidation, which you don't see so quick on fake coins (well you never know actually). But then I saw the weights... and I started to doubt a lot. Philip I Philadelphus tetradrachm, 11.7g and 25mm. Isn't 11.7g really low weight for tetradrachms with attic standard? I think this coin should definitely weigh around the 16 grams. I messaged the seller and he say, the coin is very eroded and lost weight... okay sure, maybe 0,5 grams but 4 grams? Ptolemy tetradrachm, 11.4g and 28mm. Then the ptolemy tetradrachn, I find this tetradrachm absolutely beautiful but again the weight is 11.4g, isn't that too low? Shouldn't it be around 14g? Also I noticed some flaking on the edges of the coin, isn't this quite unusual for solid silver coins? Comments are appreciated a lot, thank you.
Pavlos, your suspicions are well grounded. It's possible both coins could have been infected with "horn silver" (silver chloride) & by removing the infection the weight could have been drastically reduced.
Both look ancient to my eye, but the first has a very obvious corroded base-metal core exposed in several spots indicating it is a fourrée. Copper or bronze/brass cores have a lower density than silver which likely explains some of the weight discrepancy. I can't tell if the chipping on the edge of the 2nd one reveals a similar core, but to my knowledge (please correct if mistaken) brittle ancient crystallized silver has not been replicated by forgers. Flaking can be quite common depending on the conditions the coins were buried in, and it is often the result of careless handling after discovery, such as bouncing around the finds pouch of a metal-detectorist.
Thank you for your replies both. @Plumbata thank you for mentioning "fourrée", I actually think both coins are. The first 1st coin almost shows some kind of bronze disease at the edges? Maybe because of the copper core. I also did some research to Ptolemy fourrée tetradrachms, I found something interesting at @dougsmit website, https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/feac48pto.html Showing a fourrée tetradrachm from Ptolemy VI which has a very similar weight of 11.1g compared to the Ptolemy II tetradrachm (2nd coin) for sale with a weight of 11.4g. Maybe Doug can put his opinion about this.
The Philip coin is a fourree with a bronze core. Even so that is still light for a fourree which I expect to weight in the 13's. It's a very common coin that can be found in better condition inexpensively. 15.96g
In my opinion they are both genuine ancients and both plated coins. From their appearance they both circulated for a while before the cores became exposed. As far as I am concerned, having fourees in one's collection is a legitimate way of showing how coins were made, counterfeited and circulated. Though discounted in the market place, both then and now, they are often the only affordable way of acquiring otherwise very expensive coins and in handling them you are handling the same objects untold numbers of people in ancient Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt did. They are an authentic addition to anyone's collection and I have no difficulty in in including such coins in my collection.
Thank you guys for the replies, very helpful. Does anyone know where the Ptolemy Itetradrachm fourees were minted? Were these ancient fakes also made in Ptolemaic Egypt itself or mostly outside, for example Cyprus? There are two letters written on the Ptolemy II tetradrachm that is for sale but I have no experience at all how to find out where it is mint. Also what do you guys think what the value is of both tetradrachms? I am still thinking to buy the Ptolemy tetradrachm but only for the right price, I do not want to overpay of course. Thank you.
The Philip strikes me as rather certainly fourree. The Ptolemy style seems odd and could be just poor metal unofficial or modern fake. I can't say. My coin you mentioned show 'proper' fourree fabric for the period. There is a clear seam obverse bottom where the good silver foils overlapped but did not fuse completely. The core is good copper and the foil is good silver. I bought it from CNG in 1992 for $108.50 postpaid. That was too much but I always was a sucker for Greek fourrees. My number would be a lot less. I do not like either but suspect the Philip is ancient. I like the Ptolemy less and am not sure why. This is one of those situations where I am glad I am not a dealer or NGC grader. They have to decide between real and fake. I can just say No.
