Julius Caesar denarius

What is a limes denarius? Is it not silver? is it a fouree? ancient imitation?
Is that tarnish? artificial patina? or is this coin not genuine( modern forgery?

 

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Check out this cool article I found on Forum. It'll answer your question. It even name drops our pal @dougsmit!
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=limes denarius

 

oh
I have a Mark Antony coin that is considered a "money of necessity"( base metal underneath a silver layer.- as you can see near the bottom right edge the outer shell is coming off and exposing the base core) its supposed to be officially from Trimumvir Mark Antony but he was spreading his silver around more coins to pay his troops for the upcoming battle of Actium vs Octavian And Marcus Agrippa.

So this Limes denarius is something similar and just Julius Caesar did the same thing? years before for his own necessity?

 

Hi @Beginner345,
There is a search function on this board for searching terms like “limes denaris.” This is usually the best course of action when your looking for information about coins with auctions ongoing. If you were looking to bid on this coin you may have drawn a lot of extra competition and if you weren’t... you may have drawn it for others (not me).

 

I know but I wanted to know what this meant before If I chose to bid ( wasn't sure if I wanted to) and I wanted to know the experts opinions on this. Not just for this coin- but if I came across something like this one in the future.

 

Information here:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=limes denarius

 

I already posted this above

 

A note about pronunciation that Doug addresses in that Forum post. "Limes" looks like it would be pronounced like the citrus fruit "lemons and limes." But in Latin it would be pronounced something like "LEE-maze," which originally meant a pathway, particularly one that formed a boundary between two properties. Eventually this association led to its most common definition as a geographical boundary, like the boundary limits of a country or region. Indeed, the PDE word "limit" comes from "limes." The idea is that a "limes denarius" is a coin struck in the outer limits of a region, perhaps out of necessity due to the outer limits being far from a central organizing political body or mint authority.

I'm not sure how the word is pronounced in classical numismatic circles, but I suspect that "LEE-maze" is the preferred (Latin) pronunciation. I think Doug offers "lim-ace" as the pronunciation.

 

I know as little (or less?) today as I did when that quote was new. I do not know of what I consider 'Limes' (lee-mace) denarii this early and see the possibility that the coin is just a regular issue or contemporary counterfeit that has suffered greatly while buried and recovered. I consider the Limes of the normal period (mostly Severan) to be quite a mystery. I question the use of the term as I understand it for this coin. I don't know enough to be interested in this item at anything approaching the price it will bring.

Good questions every one. I know there are many people who believe they know the answers with certainty but I have not been convinced that the matter is settled. Where do we stop calling a coin fourree missing its silver and start calling them Limes? This is not the only thing about ancient coins I do not know but it is high on the list of things I would like to see studied by those interested parties capable of the task.

What is below? I see a struck copper coin with minimal retained silver (patch behind head?) using a bare headed portrait that looks like Septimius Severus, a legend for Clodius Albinus and a reverse of Commodus. If I required myself to understand the coins in my collection, I would hate this one. Limes?

 

OP's coin is not a limes denarius. It's the wrong period of history for that. It is almost certainly a contemporary counterfeit that lost it's silver plating. What you are seeing is the bronze core.

 

Ahh I knew I suspected something when I saw those CHUNKS of the coin literally torn off( but the color is exactly like the rest of the coin.. yet it appears oily or glossy) Thanks

I thought this seller was a reputable one on ebay. Think he just made an honest mistake? it does happen to the best of them.. One time a good seller i have dealt with in the past accidently sold me a copper pressed Claudius coin fake( made with modern copper and sharp edges)

 

I have no informed opinion about the coin. But when Sallent says it is a “contemporary“ counterfeit, I think he means contemporary to the time of Julius Caesar, not to us. I think he means that it’s a genuinely ancient coin, which still makes it collectible to most, just not at the price point that an “official” coin can command. This means there is nothing disreputable about the seller, in my opinion. Perhaps Sallent can correct me if I am misreading his comment.

 

Contemporary in ancient coin collector vernacular = a long time ago in a galaxy far away (and in this galaxy too).

So yeah, contemporary forgery in this case would be 2000+ years ago.

 

Then perhaps a better word would be "contemporaneous." [Pushes taped-together glasses back up nose, adjusts pocket protector.]

 

so it isn't even a pseudo - official coin?

 

#funniestpostofthedayaward

 

I believe these coins were minted for Caesar's troops by military mints in northern Italy, and coins for soldiers would be minted using the best silver possible. You don't want to short-change the people behind you with pointy swords (that doesn't usually end well).

It is very rare for mints to use lower quality silver during this time period (with all the soldiers that were expecting to be paid in good silver). Very few instances of that are documented, such as in the case of the Eid Mar denarius (Brutus was a cheapskate as well as a traitor). Hence why so many of his surviving denarius have corrosion on them.

But for Caesar's denarii, the man definitely liked to use good silver (95% plus silver).
That's why I believe yous was probably an ancient forgery with thin silver plating. The plating didn't survive, and from the looks of the pitting due to bronze corrosion while burried, it's a miracle the core of your coin survived at all.

I'm not saying, however, that your coin is worthless or numismatically unimportant. That is obviously not the case. I think you'll find a very healthy collectors market for ancient forgeries. After all, fake coins were a huge problem in ancient Rome, so surviving fakes are part of Roman numismatics history, and widely studied and collected.

 

Wait I don't understand. They were minted by military mints in Italy during Julius Caesars civil war with the optimates? Then how is it NOT officially from Caesar?You are saying this is a forgery.... but isn't a Roman military mint still considered official? I mean it isn't like its a Spanish or barbarous imitation of a Roman coin or something right?

 

No, that's not what he said. He said it is an ancient counterfeit.