Augustus Denarius - Lugdunum - Authenticity Check

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by TypeCoin971793, Sep 6, 2018.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    I bought this coin from a trusted dealer, but I am starting to have doubts about it due to the surface’s appearance. There is no seam on the edge.

    4B990257-F08D-41EC-8190-F61297905538.jpeg 04A5D2CF-A9EF-4CCD-8AC5-144ED3937DFD.jpeg
     
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  3. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    it just seems to be quite worn; and as you say it is from a trusted dealer, why do you doubt, just because of the surface? compare to coins of this type at http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.1(2).aug.207

    what is the size and weight of yours?
     
  4. Lolli

    Lolli Active Member

    On the reverse are pearls from casting.
    For example near second A of CAESAR.
    Casting seam can be removed or avoided with lost wax.
    Sprue can be removed.
    The style looks fine so the mother must haven been an authentic coin from official dies.
    You can look at the edge if there are file marks and if the edge was manipulated.
    You can look for weight although cast fakes can weight even more if the casting mould is modified (wax or plastic impression can be lightly modified to change flan shape).
    You can look for casting twins or mother with same or similar flan shape, wear, scratches etc. in forgery databases or acsearch / coinarchives

    This pearls are not die defects or die rust, that would look different and would be present on other coins minted from same dies at same time or later, too.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    Looks cast to mee too, unfortunately, with its soft devices and bubbles

    Sorry
    Q
     
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  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    This is a very popular coin among collectors, so fakes usually abound in that environment. I'm not saying this is a fake as I'm don't feel qualified to make that judgement based off these images. I guess I'm just saying when a coin is this popular, there are unscrupulousness people who will take advantage. So it pays to buy from a known source.

    I picked this one up from a colleague when I was still working on my travels to Croatia (he practically gave it to me) Augustus 5.jpg :
     
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  7. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    So the consesus is fake?
     
  8. Characteristics are similar to this fake of Tiberius
    [​IMG]
    This is heavy, at 5.1 grams. I think it's silver plated lead. How much does yours weigh?
     
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  9. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    3.5g
     
  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

  11. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

  12. @TypeCoin971793 I'm unable to find a die match in the fake database; but, the soapy surfaces, casting bubbles/pitting, strange edge wear, and fake toning using liver of sulfur implies it's a modern forgery. I imagine those you have tagged are likely to agree.
     
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  13. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    Looks cast to me too. :(
     
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  14. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    It is worrisome to me for all the reasons listed by @Lolli, although I can't call it one way or another based on pictures. I probably couldn't proclaim it authentic or false even with an in-hand viewing because I haven't examined enough fakes in hand.

    It does have many signs which could indicate casting. The type is part of such massive issue that finding a matching coin (either another cast, if your coin is not ancient, or the host coin) is not likely to happen. This seems to be one of the most common denarii of Augustus.
     
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  15. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    @TypeCoin971793 ,

    If it were my coin I would suspect it enough of being a cast that I would try and return it for a refund. There is just not enough evidence from what I see that would make me feel good about its authenticity even though it seems there is not a fake listed die match.

    There are several circular blobs on the reverse, two to the right of the shield and one on the second A in CAESAR that look to be higher than the circulation wear should allow. The toning looks weird and there is no evidence I can see of striking. I'm sorry, man.
     
  16. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    Agreed. This coin simply does not look as if it were struck (rather than cast). The details, even as worn as they appear to be, are too soft and poorly defined to be those of a genuine coin.
     
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  17. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Maybe not consensus, but yes, it is a fake.
     
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