Judaean/Roman War Prutah

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Deacon Ray, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. meme18

    meme18 Member

    Here are my Jewish war Prutahs.. The year 3s that have the amphora lids are my favorite. These are relatively scarcer than the common year 2 type, especially in nice condition.
    Assuming they are both representing the same temple vessel, it’s a curious change to add the lid to the design.
     

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  3. Pompeius

    Pompeius Well-Known Member

    I hate to say it but I don't think that's true. I have never heard any idea of the letters having any symbolism as you described. There is a concept of the letters being holy, but that is mentioned in the Mishna (200 CE) and the Talmud (600 CE) long after these events. There is also the Gematria, numerical idea, but that is seen first in the Mishna. It seems like you are just grabbing at darkness so to say. The letters, interestingly, are paleohebrew, long outdated at the time of minting to connect the revolt state to the Jews of ancient times.
     
  4. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    An eight dollar eBay purchase. Have no idea about the Hendin number. You can sometimes find older editions of Hendin pretty cheap on eBay or Amazon used.

    76E45B69-3D25-4E36-882F-86F71BC33C1A.jpeg
     
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  5. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    8C23A99E-23F3-4669-9C7A-1E78C5A33803.png

    Here is one of my university’s coins, and a write up I did to go along with it. If something in my write up is incorrect, please let me know.

    tl;dr: Jews struck this coin just before the Sack of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. to defy the Romans.

    So this coin is actually not one of mine, but it is one I'm working with. For the past several weeks, Beth Adams and I have been cataloging 32 Biblical, Greek, and Roman coins that are on indefinite loan to Union University. This is one of the more interesting specimens. It comes from the second year of the First Jewish Revolt, circa 67-68 A.D. Even a casual reader of the New Testament can discern the tensions between the native Jewish population of Judea and the Roman client kings, governors, and procurators. While there had been plenty of skirmishes between these parties during the first century, things really came to a head in 66 A.D., when Jewish forces overcame the Roman garrison in Jerusalem. Soon there was an all-out insurrection that threatened to destabilize Roman hegemony in the region. Only the brutal actions of Vespasian and his son Titus would quell this revolt. Titus sacked Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and burned the Temple, and the last holdouts at Masada were eliminated in 73. But for a period between 66 and 70 A.D., while the Jewish people still controlled Jerusalem, they struck their own native coinage as an act of political independence. On one side of this coin (in the frame on the right) is the Paleo-Hebrew inscription ציון חרות (HERUT ZION; “The Freedom of Zion”), along with a vine leaf with small branch and tendril. On the other we see an amphora that was involved in Jewish temple rituals. This amphora image may have been struck in response to Roman vessels that appeared on Roman coins in the region. The Roman vessels were used to pour libations out to the gods and would've been offensive to the native monotheistic population. Thus the Jewish amphora on this coin was likely a direct answer to the offensive Roman numismatic iconography—a final act of defiance prior to Jerusalem’s fall and the beginning of the Jewish Diaspora.
     
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  6. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    Why HATE to say it - I have studied these matters all my life, coming from a family and long line of rabbinical scholars of sacred text including Torah, Talmud, Sepher Yetzirah, Sepher HaZohar, Tikkunei HaZohar, Sepher HaBahir....... all dealing with the aspects I have mentioned. The word for TRUTH in Hebrew is a name of the Source of this creation= "EMET" and contains the first middle and last letter of the 22 holy letters. The middle letter is the very "mem" - holding the priml element of water as discussed in detail in the ancient Sepher Yetzirah. All these books being written forms of once oral only teachings on Torah commentary. Those waters flow with Wisdom,Truth and Love. Chochmah,Emet and Ahavah. The shapes of the letters have changed but the inner meanings and how they are used is part of this wisdom lineage tradition and includes proto-Hebraic as well as the square Ezra script that the Torah is scribed in. This is the second time in a day that the word "HATE" has come up in a post here towards something I have said. Do you folks know what implicit bigotry is? Most of you folks I know are good people and well meaning but this is the second time today what I have said here is being attacked. In previous posts this has also happened albeit sometimes in a subtle way but still there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  7. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Thanks for sharing the coin @Deacon Ray - it is very nice!
     
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  8. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Well-Known Member

    It sounds good to me! Thank you for your excellent work, Dr. Richardson! The university is fortunate to have you.
     
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  9. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    coinboughtThasosDioscouri.jpg Here are full links and some text from two ancient Hebrew books, the Sepher HaBahir and the Sepher Yetzirah that contain a little of the study of the Hebrew letters and how they were used by the ancients to carry inner meanings. These are ancient texts with sources attributed to both the great Tana/sages of the talmudic times such as Rabbi Akiva(wealthy Roman convert to Judaism) as well as the time of the Patriarchs like Abraham in oral tradition. The texts are very difficult to study without knowledge of the original Hebrew and a guide. The Yetzirah is basically a scientific HYPOTHESIS built on a 5-D understanding of the universe where "soul" called nephesh in Hebrew is as original as space and time. Likened to the "ether" of Plato.

    https://archive.org/stream/JudaismSeferHaBahirBahirEnglishTranslationPdfKabbalahTorahIsrael/(judaism) Sefer ha-bahir (Bahir) - english translation pdf - kabbalah torah israel_djvu.txt
    https://archive.org/details/JudaismSeferHaBahirBahirEnglishTranslationPdfKabbalahTorahIsrael
    here is the text translation of the Bahir dealing with the letter "Nun" and the 'MEM" as mentioned in the comment about the coin.
    "
    "The Bahir
    The straight Nun is the one that is always at the end of a word. This teaches us that the
    straight Nun includes both the bent one and the straight one.
    But the bent Nun is the Foundation. This teaches us that the straight Nun includes both male
    and female.
    84. The open Mem. What is the open Mem ?
    It includes both male and female.
    What is the closed Mem ?
    It is made like a belly from above.
    But Rabbi Rahumai said that the belly is like the letter Teth.
    He said it is like a Teth on the inside, while I say that it is like a Mem on the outside.
    85 What is a Mem
    Do not read Mem, but Mayim (water). Just l ike water is wet, so is the belly always wet.
    Why does the open Mem include both male and female, while the closed Mem is male?
    This teaches us that the Mem is primarily male. The opening was then added to it for the
    sake of the female.
    Just like the male cannot give birth, so the closed Mem cannot give birth. And just like the
    female has an opening with which to give birth, so can the open Mem give birth. The Mem is
    therefore open and closed.
    86. Why should the Mem have two forms, open and closed?
    Because we said: Do not read Mem, but Mayim (Water)."

    and the Sepher Yetzirah link:http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/yetzirah.htm
    The tradition says that the wisdom in this book goes back to the time of Abraham, the first Jew.
    Here is a small part of the section on the letter "MEM" from the yetzirah:"
    3. The Three Mothers in the world are Aleph, Mem and Shin: the heavens
    (36) were produced (37) from Fire; the earth from the Water; and the Air
    from the Spirit is as a reconciler between the Fire and the Water.
    4. The Three Mothers, Aleph, Mem and Shin, Fire, Water and Air, are shown
    in the Year: from the fire came heat, from the waters came cold, and from
    the air was produced the temperate state, again a mediator between them.
    The Three Mothers, Aleph, Mem and Shin, Fire, Water and Air, are found in
    Man: from the fire was formed the head; from the water the belly; and from
    the air was formed the chest, again placed as a mediator between the
    others.
    5. These Three Mothers did He produce and design, and combined them; and
    He sealed them as the three mothers in the Universe, in the Year and in
    Man--both male and female. He caused the letter Aleph to reign in Air and
    crowned it, and combining it with the others He sealed it, as Air in the
    World, as the temperate (climate) of the Year, and as the breath in the
    chest (the lungs for breathing air) in Man: the male with Aleph, Mem, Shin,
    the female with Shin, Mem, Aleph. He caused the letter Mem to reign in
    Water,
    crowned it, and combining it with the others formed the earth in the
    world, cold in the year, and the belly in man, male and female, the former
    with Mem, Aleph, Shin, the latter with Mem, Shin, Aleph. He caused Shin to
    reign in Fire, and crowned it, and combining it with the others sealed with it...."
    Oh yes, one more item- for those who are open minded and accept other world views and respect others for their ways in the world the world of both ancient Rome and Greece are extremely intertwined with the Jewish lineage tradition and the work of the Jews in the world. The very famous prophecy ofthe Hebrew prophet Isaiah(Yeshayahu in Hebrew) that "the wolf will feed(some say lie down) with the lamb has four levels of interpretation by the ancient wise ones. The "remez" or hint level is that the WOLF is ROME and the LAMB is ISRAEL(some say Christianity in particular). The sage Rabbi Akiva fulfilled that ancient prophecy(already old when Akiva was alive) by being a Roman pagan convert to Judaism and one of our greatest sages.. And then of course all of ROME became Christian fulfilling the prophecy to whole other level. Our ancient coinage carries profound teachings about these things for those who care about other people, are respectful and willing to learn.
    A most profound level of the intertwinings of these ancient peoples and their traditions is about what are called in the Hebrew, the "TEOMIM". These are twins that were worshipped throughout the world by many peoples. The coins tell their history and development and with the wisdom teachings of several traditions(they were called the "ASHWINS" in ancient India-the White Horsemen),we may find some amazing knwoledge only revealed in the underground caves of the Eleusian(see image of coin above from THASOS depicting the great mother and her twins) and Delphian mystery traditions as well as many other lineage traditions around the globe. They are just called the "TWIN GRANDSONS" of the Grandmother spider(Kybele-mother of the gods), weaver of the worlds, in the Pueblo and Navajo(DINE) peoples of America. The key to both Christian and Jewish prophetic traditions may be found when we study the Two White Horses mentioned in The Hebrew book of Zechariah as well as the terribly mistranslated and misunderstood Christian book of Revelation. BTW- the book of The Revelation of John has twenty two chapters that align with the twenty two Hebrew letters which may be applied to help understand the real meanings. Only two books in all of the bible that align with the hebrew letters- Kings I and Revelation. Have a wonderful new Sunday!( and I know some you folks believe all this religious or spiritual stuff is hocus pocus hooey. Ok- you are 4-Drs- which means you BELIEVE in the hypothesis of just time/space and we came about by chance. No science has validated this hypothesis by replicating the origin of life in a test tube.Your origin or "parent" is a puddle of alkaline muck hangin around about a billion or so years ago. As a 5-Dr I hold a different hypothesis and worldview- developed from my own personal experiences and life path. I choose that my origin is an eternal loving parent who figured it all out and made the whole place. For me that is where we go eventually. It is your choice- the puddle of muck or the hugging arms of our loved ones. And it probably doesn't matter what you believe as long as you bring goodness and beauty into the world. Or just keep it all as a great mystery. It is an awesome journey however you view the ship we are sailing. coinboughtThasosDioscouri.jpg thessalycoin.jpg
    And here is a beauty depicting the Holy Mother goddess anddownflowing of the WATER of ETERNAL LIFE:53KL6) THESSALY, Pherai. Circa 302-286 BC. AR Hemidrachm (15mm, 2.67 g, 1h). Wreathed head of Ennodia left; torch to right / ΦERAIOYN, the nymph Hypereia left, touching the top of lion’s head fountain right, from which water pours forth; to lower left, AΣ/TO within wreath. BCD Thessaly I 1321; BCD Thessaly II 714; HGC 4, 553. VF, lightly toned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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  10. Pompeius

    Pompeius Well-Known Member


    I take issue with several of your statements. Firstly, the Sefer haBahir, is thought to have been written in the twelfth or thirteenth century in imitation of ancient midrash interpretations. (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/sefer-ha-bahir) Secondly, nonwhere is it said Rabbi Akiva was a convert. He was rather descended from a family of converts. Your alignment of the book of revelations with Hebrew letters seems unlikely, considering it was composed in Greek by a Christian in part of the Greek world having nothing to do with Hebrew.
     
  11. Mike Margolis

    Mike Margolis Well-Known Member

    The Bahir is not an imitation, it is a part of what we call Torah Shel B'Peh- the oral teachings of the mouth. The Yetzirah's written documents are even older than the Bahir. Many, many oral teachings were not written till way after the destruction of the temple and the diaspora. This includes talmud, mishnah and many,many others. You most likely are not a person who would ever listen to someone like me. This is not a reply for you but for those who might benefit. Convert or a family of converts- ridiculous nitpicking. The Revelation is a Gnostic text mostly written in a code only known to initiates at a time when Gnostics and Jews freely interacted and shared teachings. "I have studied the matter sir and you have not"- a famous quote of Issac Newton when arguing for the validity of ancient astrological techniques with the naysayer- Edmund Halley. Just from the infamous Chapter thirteen in Revelation. "Let him who hath wisdom and understanding"...calculate the number. You and most non Jewish folks and even scholars would not know Torah and Prophets well enough to know immediately who and what this really refers to(not a devil!). The Gnostic solar numbers used in this book and a Greek gematria hold the surprising key. Pick up the seminal book by John Michell, "City of Revelation" which scratches the surface of the true Gnostic and ancient Hebraic wisdom in this book. Then study Torah and the books linked above in the Hebrew- for a few decades and you will begin to really learn. Nad BTW that 13th chapet of revelation which is written in a couched for to protect it's secrets and those who wrote it is a teaching from are called the Kellipot- the shells of holiness that contain the inner sparks of Truth. AND IT IS THE THIRTEENTH CHAPTER aligning with the Hebrew letter MEM which hovers over the amphorah (holding the secret to eternal waters of life) and on the prutha and brings us back to the beginning of the discussion.
    https://www.amazon.com/City-Revelation-John-Michell/dp/0345258754
    and this touches a little on who the author of revelation was really refering to and how the ancient gematria of both Hebrew and Greek was used by the author extensively:https://spiritandshadow.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/sacred-geometry-and-the-number-of-the-beast/

    ON Rabbi Akiva:https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/was...nvert-or-was-rabbi-akibas-father-the-convert/
    and another opinion: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/rabbi-akiba/ claims he was illiterate till the age of 40 when he began studying Torah
    Please buy and study this one which takes the opinion that he converted when he met his wife Rachel and she urged him to study. I know you will want to read some of the Jewish tradition:https://mekorjudaica.com/akiva-the-...MIy4L0qaqd3QIVyLjACh1EyQhwEAQYASABEgLchfD_BwE

    and chapter thirteen of Revelation(the MEM chapter) is about the following ancient Jewish King and the initiates in temple building including the solar gnostic redeemer of Christianity- whose Greek name "Ieosus Christos" = in Greek gematria=2368 which is the very value of the verse! we are referring to. The gnostic author hid it in part to save his own skin!!! And the only person mentioned to have asked for 'WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING" in Hebrew scripture is KINGS I chapter 10:
    . {P}
    יד
    וַיְהִי מִשְׁקַל הַזָּהָב, אֲשֶׁר-בָּא לִשְׁלֹמֹה בְּשָׁנָה אֶחָת--שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת שִׁשִּׁים וָשֵׁשׁ, כִּכַּר זָהָב. 14 Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold. The secrets many come from the dimensional grids of the ancients as I have mentioned before since you find them on the coins of Miletos! This is based on the solar grid that aligns with the fourth of the ancient heavens surrounding the Earth in these ancient teachings. It holds the eternal upper temple. Itas a quality represents DOMINION- or political power and when out of balance it is tyranny but the gnostic Christian and Jewish lineages are about bringing it into the world mitigated with the soft lunar light so revered in the Earth based pagan traditions as appearing on many ancient coins. A true initiate in this wisdom wil have the power of dominion we call in Hebrew Geburah but balanced with the loving kindness of the upper waters called Chesed. SolarHierarchy.jpg and the grid in Hebrew which contains many more understandings: sunkameahebrew.png
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
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