Uncirculated on Ebay?

I'm just curious if anyone can explain the mass amounts of auctions on ebay that state a coin is uncirculated but it clearly shows signs of wear and nicks and dings. To me it looks like they are circulated. I'm just kinda confused on the point of using that terminology when it seems untrue.

I'm still new at this and trying to learn, i have searched for an explanation but couldn't find one.

Apologies if I posted this in the wrong forum.

 

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1. Sellers are lying
2. Sellers don't know any better
3. Seller might be right and the photo may be making the coin look worse than it is

eBay is fantastic but you have to get a feel for what is worth taking a risk on.

 

It's true that eBay sellers often lie, or don't know what they're talking about. But it's also true that an uncirculated coin can have nicks and dings. Marks that happen while a coin is being loaded or transported in bags aren't considered "circulation".

It gets complicated, and I'm probably not the person to explain it, because I'm still a little skeptical about it all myself. The idea that a beat-up MS60 coin that's "uncirculated" is more desirable (and expensive) than a lustrous, gorgeous AU58 "circulated" example bugs me a lot.

 

This is an important issue. It is the reason for the TPG grading "system." They do not "grade" coins, but rather they "price" them. If they call a coin MS60, it doesn't mean it's uncirculated but that they think it's worth low-end UNC money. If they grade it AU58, they think it's not worth as much as that low-end UNC. That's why a lot of coins with noticeable friction wear are slabbed as MS60-63 and occasionally higher. Those coins used to be the AU58s.

 

This is one of the reasons that I do not respect slab grades.

 

Could be bag marks and the seller considers it un-circulated. I asked that question myself. As many know the Morgan Lady Liberty appears to always have marks on her cheek.

 

I follow certain sellers because I've had great luck with the coins they sell. The bad thing about this is that the more the sellers know, the less chance of you getting a coin well below its value.

 

I am only really doing pennies atm since I have limited funds being out on workers comp for 7 months now and maybe 8 more . Seems like I have alot to learn but the one thing I have noticed is you REALLY need to do some research before buying coins on ebay I guess lol.

I did pick up a box of pennies that I am spending my time dissecting and thinking of selling some on ebay but I don't want to be that misinformed seller selling stuff without knowing what it is I'm selling lol.

I did pick up a red book and its been very informative as well.

So what I am taking away so far is research, research, research

 

I feel you on that one, I am or was a avid comic collector and in todays market EVERYTHING is overpriced and overvalued seems comics arent the only place this happens lol

 

Your example bugs me just reading it lol, I would much rather go with the nicer coin.

Lots to learn on my part for sure.

And I'm glad you guys are here to set me straight , I enjoy feedback even if it doesn't go my way it's always appreciated.

 

In general agreement with halfcent1793 comments. The TPG services in effect set the commercial value of the coin for those buyers who are not diligent in evaluating the true grade of the coin based on wear, surface marks, etc. I always pass on slabbed MS60 or better coins with wear, despite TPG opinion. As a longtime large cent collector, I use net (EAC) grade to establish large cent values. For other denominations near MS 60, similar evaluations are employed.

 

I collect Morgan dollars in strictly MS. It's easy to tell an A.U. 55 Morgan from a MS one if you examine it in hand and have full Sunlight to examine a coin. But A.U. 58 + Morgans (sliders) are tricky though unless you've examined thousands of them after being trained by numismatic instructors And even if you have, to err is human, especialy with a time limitation (TPG) or you have a proprietary interest ( you paid your own dinero you worked long , hard for ) in the coin . That's why I bought a Microscope
-to ensure I could see whether the flow lines are worn off the highest point of the eagle's breast feathers. The surface microfractures that account for the luster & " cartwheel " effect are gone with 140 years of oxidation. But
dulled Silver still contrasts well near untouched Silver. Silver dollars are so large they were handled between thumb and forefinger when circulated.
The sebacious oil exuded by human skin has low gravity but over 140 years it can subtly eat away soft Silver. I've bought 200 Silver dollars on Ebay. Every day I see obvious frauds misrepresented as MS on Ebay. PCGS' photographs can help you learn how to grade accurately. But you still have to learn how to authenticate tween Chinese forgeries meant to counterfeit
My microscope is once of the best investments I've ever made.

 

OK, first of all, grading is extremely subjective and NO two opinions are 100%. That said, I do not purchase ANY coins on Ebay that are not graded by NGC or PCGS. Now i know there is a 3rd grading company that has risen in recent years but, I am still cautious with them. As mentioned by other, YES, coins that are not graded are NOT what they are stated and most are well below, if not blatant lies. In other cases, there are fakes so, be very careful and do not buy ANY coins NOT graded.

 

More for me, then! Thanks!

 

Many of my very best purchases have been raw coins on eBay, including gold, patterns, and raw classic silver that graded up to MS66. You have to be cautious, but great deals can be found if you are sharp.

 

Learn to grade (and it's obvious that you've got some experience)........You are the final grader.

 

I collect Morgan dollars in strictly MS. It's easy to tell an A.U. 55 Morgan from a MS one if you examine it in hand and have full Sunlight to examine a coin. But A.U. 58 + Morgans (sliders) are tricky though unless you've examined thousands of them after being trained by numismatic instructors And even if you have, to err is human, with a time limitation (TPG) or you have a proprietary interest ( you paid your own dinero you worked long , hard for ) in the coin . That's why I bought a Microscope -to ensure I could see whether the flow lines are worn off the highest point of the eagle's breast feathers. Microfractures that account for the luster, " cartwheel " effect are gone with 140 years of oxidation. But Silver dulled from wear still contrasts well near untouched Silver. Silver dollars are so large they were handled between thumb and forefinger when circulated. Sebacious oil in human skin has low gravity but over 140 years it can subtly eat away soft Silver. I've bought 200 Ebay Silver dollars. Every day I see obvious frauds misrepresented as MS on Ebay. PCGS' photographs can help you learn how to grade accurately. But you still have to learn how to authenticate tween Chinese forgeries meant to counterfeit. Solution ? My microscope is once of the best investments I've ever made.

 

If you know your eBay sellers well, then you know that the items they sell you will be worth what you paid for them. There are some eBay sellers who are members here — I know of a few, but hardly any more than just a few — whose listings are nearly always worth their asking prices. Another way of looking at listings is that the better sellers usually ask a fair price; few overprice their items. I don't deny that there are dishonest sellers on eBay, only that with experience, the observant buyer will be able to recognize who the dishonest ones are.

 

I wish I had this sort of diligence. Most of the Morgans I've bought are below my expectations, but not really less than described by the seller, thus I have no real reason to return except buyer's remorse, and the guy who took the time to list the coin really isn't responsible for that. I certainly don't have anywhere near 200 Morgans, about 30, I think, and about 70 Peace Dollars. About half of these are very nice examples the other half is not so good... just shiny.

 

This is a great point. I've met many dealers through eBay who I trust buying raw from. Buy one coin first or maybe a few cheaper coins and see if you agree with their grading and pricing. Strike up a conversation.