I got a "not a fallen horseman"

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by randygeki, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    It's a bit worn but still a neat coin with captives in the ex, and it's not a FH (it just came with one :D )
    IMG_4423.jpg

    Constantine I (307-337 AD), AE follis, Lugdunum mint, Obv: CONSTANTINVS AVG Cuirassed bust of Constantine right in high-crested helmet, Rev: VICTORIAE LAET PRINC PERP Two Victories resting VOT/PR shield on altar, two captives in exergue, 18.5 mm 3.04 gr, RIC 65.

    This is the coin it came with, and early issue from Aquileia
    IMG_4420.jpg

    I picked these 2 up a couple days ago.
    A nice later Alexandrian
    IMG_4417.jpg

    and this one from Constantinople. One I have, except this has the RE-P break instead of the R-EP break.:confused:
    IMG_4414.jpg

    I picked this one up a while ago. Its the last officina I need for Antioch, though I still rather of one of RIC 132 or 135
    IMG_4395.jpg
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    You bought a coin that's not a fallen horseman type? How is that possible?:eek:

    Hell has frozen over.

    hell-has-frozen-over.jpg
     
  4. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  5. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    As always, Randy - great coins.
     
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  6. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Nice additions Randy.
     
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  7. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..ahaha.. great coin randy!..:)
     
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  8. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    With 4 FH's to one non-FH I call this a bait and switch! :shifty:

    :p (Kidding, I love the FH's too. Of course!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  9. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    There are several variations on these as we;; but not the 2200 or so FH. Compare decorations on altar and PL flanking captives.
    rv4590bb1580.jpg
     
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  10. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Nice pick-ups Randy!
     
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  11. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Nice additions, Randy.

    I have always liked the captives as mintmark types, but yet to acquire one.

    Great FH additions too.
     
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  12. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Yep. This is a TROJAN HORSE post.
    :shame:
     
  13. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    You should be aware that the FEL TEMP REPARATIO majorina & fractions series contains many more types than just the propaganda-heavy fallen horseman. You have another common type of the emperor standing in a galley prow holding either a small figure of Victory or a phoenix and a labarum - Victory sits at the helm of the galley, steering.
    Then there's the "emperor & captive(s)" type which is pretty self-explanatory, although the number of captives is variable as is the posture of the captive(s).
    There is the ever popular "Emperor leading youth from hut" or simply "Hut" type. As above, the emperor, in military garb, and holding a spear point-downwards (sign of the end of a military action) has a small figure by the hand and is leading him out of a crude-looking hut under a tree,
    There are the half-majorinae with Phoenix standing reverses - two main types on which the phoenix stands on either a globe or a rocky mound.
    There are a couple of even less commonly seen FEL TEMP's usually with the emperor on horseback riding down an enemy.
    Now that list doesn't come particularly close to enumerating all the sub-types of "FEL TEMP REPARATIO". Although admittedly the astronomical numbers of surviving coins would point to even a greater universality at one point of the fallen horseman as the only coin type in circulation in the 350's, FEL TEMP's in general span a surprisingly wide variety of scenes - although almost all have themes at least related to the military and defense.
    The fallen horseman, it is presumed, was propaganda offered to assuage the fears of those living near the borders who were under a genuine threat of being overrun by Huns or whichever other group of barbarians happened to be "at the gate" this week. The message - "a Roman foot-soldier is easily able to unhorse and kill members of an invading cavalry wave" was, like most political exclamations, not only exaggerated but closer to unadulterated horse-puckey. Roman infantry legions were being literally slaughtered to the last man, ridden-down by "barbarian" cavalry charges in battles like the decisive defeat of Roman forces at Hadrianopolis, not long after the fallen horseman type was retired.
     
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  14. lehmansterms

    lehmansterms Many view intelligence as a hideous deformity

    Of course, the preceding comment was limited to types of FEL TEMP's. That - even as common as they seem - is only one segment of a virtual galaxy of types of "LRB's" produced in the Constantinian era.
    The original coin - the VICTORIAE LAETAE PRINC PERP, 2 Victorys holding vota on shield, is one of the most widely copied types of the era with unofficial mint issues nearly equaling the numbers of official pieces surviving.
    It would be far too long a comment and take far too long to type for me to try to enumerate all the types of 4th century LRB's, but suffice it to say that if you think all LRB's are fallen horseman majorinae you will discover that they are pretty much just the tip - albeit a mighty tip - of the iceberg.
    If you have no other reference resources you can come pretty close to seeing an exhaustive list of LRB types in the listings of a volume like "Handbook of Roman Imperial Coins" by David Van Meter. Available new in cardcover for $25-$30 and probably cheaper used, too, if you can find one.
     
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  15. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I can state with confidence that Randy knows about the Fel Temp series. @Valentinian has also been very good about reminding us of the lesser-known types.

    With that having been said, this is a very helpful and insightful discussion of the series. I think your contextual reading of how that reverse type might be read in the mid fourth century is persuasive.
     
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  16. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  17. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    Great pick ups @randygeki. Your dedication to the series is impressive.

    I have just added another Antioch officina to my 132s bringing my total to 8.

    [​IMG]

    @lehmansterms

    There are a few members here who dabble with the wider FEL TEMP types. I have more obtained many more than I ever intended to. Here is a small selection of mine to illustrate some of the types that you mention.

    Galley
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Hut
    [​IMG]

    2 Captives
    [​IMG]

    1 Captive
    [​IMG]

    Phoenix
    Rocks
    [​IMG]
    Globe
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Fantastic addition, Martin. Saw the Antioch on Forvm.
     
  19. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Indeed. Great addition!
     
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