PCGS Authenticates a "Specimen" Morgan Dollar

Read the article about it here: https://coinweek.com/education/coin...es-first-known-1878-s-specimen-morgan-dollar/

It appears to be a well made, and very attractive, dollar. But how do they know it is a "specimen"? Is there any documentation that special strikes were made? What is a "specimen" strike, anyways?

Thoughts? @messydesk

 

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Wow! Thanks for sharing the article. Fantastic read and a more fantastic coin and story.

I didn’t see the price of what it sold for in 2006 (raw). Also wonder what the market will price it as now that it’s in TPG plastic.

 

There was similar article in Numismatics News this week I believe.

 

It's a nice coin but it looks circulated to me. Look at the reverse. The lower right star looks worn or not stamped well. And the leaves just above it are worn. Or, they are also the result of a poor strike. Just my opinion and could use some feedback.

 

It was (most likely) minted first before the regular business strikes and proofs? Since this was the first year of the series they might have wanted to have a high quality (specimen) to showcase? That would be my guess?

 

I didnt read the article yet (i will later)
The 1st things that jumped out immediately
1) the hair detail especially the lower curl above the 2nd 8 & above the ear.
2) the wreath leaves are sharp with full detail
3) the cheek is very very clean
4) this is what you call a long nock-
These go for a premium, even in circulated condition! If you are not familiar with '78 S long nocks then i would suggest google

 

I believe I read that some of these specimens left the Mint w/o being recorded. Given away to government officials and some left via Mint employees.

 

That's one sharp eagle!!

 

This coin is discussed in greater depth on the PCGS boards.

 

Many of us aren't on the PCGS boards. Link?

 

First, it's a very cool coin. This variety otherwise doesn't exist above AU.

Second, here are the links to PCGS and VAMWorld discussions on it. It's a lot of reading, but there are a lot of interesting takes on it.

Finally, I had a long talk with David McCarthy at the ANA show, and he's going to put together and post even more information he told me about. I don't want to steal his thunder, so I'll wait for him.

 

That is a cool discovery!

 

I'm not a big fan of Morgan Dollars, but this is a tremendous find. Morgans are in the top 3 most collected coins, and this will certainly be a headliner for all those folks. I am amazed!

 

This was sorta my point in posting this thread.

How do you define a Specimen coin?

 

This is not a realistic definition of "specimen," as there are coins made since 1817 that have a "special fabric" yet were not made or authorized as proof coins. This is one of them. The first strikings of the Morgan dollar in Philadelphia, which were specially prepared 1-offs are also accurately considered to be specimen coinage. Accounts of the day note that after the ceremonial coins were struck, the presses were run at normal speed. There is no reason not to refer to the initial special coins as specimen strikes. The authorized branch mint proof Morgans of 79-O, 83-O, 93-CC, and 21-S were not made on medal presses, as the branch mint didn't have these, but they could figure out how to make special coins. Even the SMS coins of 1965-67 fit the description of not being proof coinage but having many characteristics of proof coinage. Some of these later coins have an easier claim to the "specimen" definition than some of the pre-1817 coinage.

Bottom line is that even though actual proof coinage in the US started in 1817, there is no reason to reserve the term "specimen" exclusively for special coins made earlier, as there are coins made since that need to be described as what they are.

 

I think the definition of "specimen" can be expanded a bit beyond what you suggest. Knowledge and technology evolves. But, I agree that PCGS throws it around wildly - anything shiny gets labelled a Specimen.

In my mind, a "specimen" needs to have documentation that it was in fact a special striking. They shouldn't just label a well struck prooflike coin as a specimen.

I was watching a Heritage auction recently, and PCGS called a coin a silver plated specimen strike, completely inventing a new rarity for the series! Nowhere was it mentioned in any reference... it was just a silver toned prooflike strike.