Technical question on Nickel composition

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Vess1, Aug 24, 2018.

Page 1 of 2
  1. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter

    Can anyone here explain why nickels retain a bright silver color despite the fact that they are 75% copper? How is it possible for the 25% of nickel in the coin to be the predominant color?
     
    Vess1, Aug 24, 2018
    #1 + Quote Reply
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Gonna get technical here...

    aka white copper. molecules and photons and stuff make it look that way.
     
    CoinCorgi, Aug 24, 2018
    #2 + Quote Reply
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  4. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    For the very same reason that a relatively small percentage of silver makes gold white gold. White gold is mostly gold, 18k is 75/25, but it's sure silver colored.

    The technical reason, it's because all metals, even alloys, are crystalline and the lighter colored metal reflects the light more than the darker colored metal making the lighter color dominant.
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2018
    #3 + Quote Reply
    Vess1 and micbraun like this.
  5. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Unless.. It's struck on a Cent Planchet! ;)
    From my collection -
    5C on 1C.jpg
     
    paddyman98, Aug 24, 2018
    #4 + Quote Reply
    JCro57, Cheech9712, mlov43 and 3 others like this.
  6. Robert91791

    Robert91791 Well-Known Member

    Nickel has a marked effect on the colour of Cu-Ni allow. The copper as it becomes lighter as nickel is added. Alloy is slivery white from about 15% of nickel and the lustre and purity increases as with nickel content. In addition the effect of the alloying elements like tensile, proof and hot strength. Solidus, liquidus and corrosion resistance increased as well with nickel content although thermal and electrical conductivity decreases. My 50 cents
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    Robert91791, Aug 24, 2018
    #5 + Quote Reply
  7. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The color of a metal is not "reflective" ~ chemistry pun~ on the nucleus content ( protons, neutrons, etc.), but on the outer cloud of electrons that comes with metallic bonding. Color comes from the electrons changing shells due to light energy ( all metals are colorless in the dark) :)

    edited to add : the type ( gold, silver, nickel, copper) of metal is due to the nucleus composition but the color is electrons.
     
    desertgem, Aug 24, 2018
    #6 + Quote Reply
    Kentucky likes this.
  8. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Hmmmm - sounds like the same thing I said - except I said it in plain English and you didn't :D
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2018
    #7 + Quote Reply
    John Skelton, Cheech9712 and Randy Abercrombie like this.
  9. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    Oldhoopster, Aug 24, 2018
    #8 + Quote Reply
    mlov43, paddyman98 and Pickin and Grinin like this.
  10. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    Yeah, but it's still worth only 5 cents to a vending machine.
     
    Clawcoins, Aug 24, 2018
    #9 + Quote Reply
    Cheech9712, paddyman98 and Robert91791 like this.
  11. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Yes, but they wouldn't pay me for saying it in plain English though :)

    Few would collect coins if they were all solid black .
     
    desertgem, Aug 24, 2018
    #10 + Quote Reply
    mlov43 and Oldhoopster like this.
  12. brandon spiegel

    brandon spiegel Brandon Spiegel

    thats a good question!
     
    brandon spiegel, Aug 24, 2018
    #11 + Quote Reply
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    We get paid for this ??? :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

    Oh that's right, I forgot. Checks come the 2nd Tuesday of each week :shame: :oops:
     
    GDJMSP, Aug 24, 2018
    #12 + Quote Reply
    Kentucky and Pickin and Grinin like this.
  14. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    I've been told that I usually do a decent job of explaining scientific concepts in simple terms, but you guys are own with this one.

    In any case, the linked article actually gives a good explanation. Hopefully someone can do better job of distilling it down to plain English
     
    Oldhoopster, Aug 24, 2018
    #13 + Quote Reply
  15. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    So why does the light reflected by the nickel molecules overwhelm (to our eye) the light reflected by the copper molecules. Different energy levels or many many more energy levels emitting light from nickel than from copper?

    tenor.gif
     
    CoinCorgi, Aug 24, 2018
    #14 + Quote Reply
  16. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Because metallic bonding is different than the usual covalent ( such as organic ) , ionic ( such as some minerals), in that the nuclei are more together in the center and the electron cloud is on the outside ( yes, I cheated and lied a little in the sentence, as I am trying to put it into PLAIN ENGLISH for the older generations), and it is the electrons that give the color effect to our retinas.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    desertgem, Aug 24, 2018
    #15 + Quote Reply
  17. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Thought it was next summer at 4 o'clock.
     
    Pickin and Grinin, Aug 24, 2018
    #16 + Quote Reply
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    This was the original question -

    And although it has been answered it's apparently still generating more questions. So I'll try to explain it a different way.

    What causes the confusion or perhaps I should say lack of understanding with this is how light and the colors we see normally behave. White light is composed of many different colors. And when white light strikes say a red object what happens is this - because the object is red it absorbs all other colors in the light except the red. The red that is in the white light is not absorbed, instead it is reflected and thus that is the color we see the object as being. The exact same thing happens with all other colors except black. Black absorbs all colors and thus what we see is the lack of light being reflected to our eye. This is what happens with most objects. So it stands to reason that if an object is made of something that is 75% one color, then that is the color we should see. Or so we think.

    But with metal it's different because metal has a different structure than most other objects - it's crystalline in nature - and so it reflects and absorbs the light in a different way. And it also refracts the light because it is crystalline - which most other objects do not do. So it subdues darker colors and exaggerates lighter colors.

    And then if you throw in toning, or corrosion if you prefer the word, into the mix everything changes yet again because the metal changes from one substance to another and thus it reflects, absorbs, and refracts light differently than it did before. The toning or corrosion interferes with those 3 properties creating light of a different color than what we originally saw and things go back to acting the way things normally do when it comes to color. Different colors are now absorbed, reflected, and refracted depending on how thick the toning/corrosion is. And once the toning gets thick enough all we see is black because all color is then being absorbed by the object.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
    GDJMSP, Aug 25, 2018
    #17 + Quote Reply
    Scuba4fun777 and ldhair like this.
  19. mlov43

    mlov43 주화 수집가

    mlov43, Aug 25, 2018
    #18 + Quote Reply
  20. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    Or you could explain it another way ;)

     
    juris klavins, Aug 25, 2018
    #19 + Quote Reply
  21. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    Cheech9712, Aug 25, 2018
    #20 + Quote Reply
13 more messages...
Page 1 of 2
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page